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In response to the original inquiry, I think it would be erroneous to put faith aside to bask in the full sun of Science. We think we know it all right now. But in 100 years, scientists will look back and say "boy were they stupid." "Science" told many that the Earth was the center of the universe. It talks of evolution as a fact despite the contradictory evidence. It still cannot explain many things. And every time we think we're right, years later someone proves it wrong.
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Seize the time,. . .live now, make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again- Star Trek TNG
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It seems to me that we as human beings seek to understand our surroundings. In order to do that, we need something to believe in, whether it be science or the divine. It all comes down to the same thing in the end: there is some sort of order to the world. Whether that order is from scientific laws or the divine or some combination of both seems to be the underlying issue.
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QUOTE (reddrake79 @ 21-Jun-2004, 09:50 AM)
No, I was not talking about genetic engineering. I was saying that through speciation, mutations, and natural processes, genetic information has been lost not changed. we were talking about a hypothetical world were adam and eve had never sinned. I was saying that in that world before sin and the curse - man, plants and animals were perfect unlike they are today.
p.s. to my last post. Just because God saves us from our own sins, does not mean that we aren't affected by somedody elses or experience the consequences of our own past sins.
O'siyo reddrake, ~ If I may respond to some things I just read in your post..Tis only my opinion other words known as my 'two-cents' ~ First off...I don't believe in perfection..I don't believe it exists nor do I believe it ever existed.. I believe that with every change there was or is a specific reason for it...I am not certain what the reasons are but, a lot of things in life were meant, in my opinion, to remain a 'mystery' if you will..unsolved...hence the reason for scientific research and experimentation..gives us humans 'something to do'.. ~Secondly, I don't believe anything genetic 'was lost'...I believe that with all things, everything had to change in order to adapt to a ever changing world, environment, era... I believe it could go back to Darwinism..'survival of the fittest'...it was never meant for everything to survive in this world..that wouldn't be natural...all things live hence all things must 'die'..make room for new species..It all has to do with 'change'...tis my opinion on these issues ~And for the record..I do not believe that we or Mother Earth was ever without 'sin'..after all what is sin?..my belief on sin is not something that is written or documented in a book or written by someone who claims to be better/greater than myself..to me a sin is 'something, actions/words, that one does and it just doesn't feel right for YOU; gives you a pang if you will in your spirit'..doesn't matter what it means to someone else for each individual is so different, thank gawd so 'sin' can mean so many things..I believe that word like so many others HAS to be based on each individual.. ~~Sty-U, Nomaste', Shalom
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It doesn't surprise me AT ALL that Freekenny is a deep thinker an philosopher. Thank you for your thoughts, my friend. Science vs faith? From a Buddhist perspective, there is NO conflict between science and religeon. Life is a process of seeking and discovery. Our understanding of the universe is growing rapidly. Sometimes it is hard to turn loose of ideas and concepts that prove to be "less than true". We are each responsible for reviewing and questioning our understanding and beliefs. If we don't DO that we become something less than human. My dog has pure faith: I am her god.
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"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." Carl Sagan
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QUOTE (maisky @ 02-Dec-2004, 07:58 AM)
It doesn't surprise me AT ALL that Freekenny is a deep thinker an philosopher. Thank you for your thoughts, my friend. Science vs faith? From a Buddhist perspective, there is NO conflict between science and religeon. Life is a process of seeking and discovery. Our understanding of the universe is growing rapidly. Sometimes it is hard to turn loose of ideas and concepts that prove to be "less than true". We are each responsible for reviewing and questioning our understanding and beliefs. If we don't DO that we become something less than human. My dog has pure faith: I am her god.
O'siyo maisky, ~ You humble me, Ni Ya We O'ginalli! ~~ Here Here!! You are so correct when saying, 'Life is a process of seeking and discovery. ~ We are each responsible for reviewing and questioning our understanding and beliefs. If we don't DO that we become something less than human. EXACTLY! Very well said!! ~~ How lucky is the Dump!! To have a god such as yourself!! ~~Sty-U
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I eventually Googled an answer. Not sure I agree with it, but seems to boil down to the idea of art bringing out and emphesizing imprefections in nature. As if that's a bad thing... I think the imperfections are part of the beauty, myself
I have not read all the answers Back to the original question--
Cavemen or modern ecclectic cosmopolitan city dwellers-- It still boils down to mortality, the one thing that has remained constant through the Ages. We are still mortal, we age, we die and we still don't know if there is an afterlife. By accepting a belief it eases the transition. It does not need to be more complicated than that IMHO.
However to borrow a phrase: power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. To have an idea about something is pure thought, it can be shared and expressed, accepted or denied without effort. Yet to believe in something remains bloody and can be dangerous, wars even to this day are being wagered because of it. Think about it.
We are still mortal, we age, we die and we still don't know if there is an afterlife. By accepting a belief it eases the transition.
It's at the core of cores.
I think you are right that it does not need to be more complicated than that, but it is typically wrapped in a lot of layers. That's the human gift and curse at the same time -- infinite elaboration to defend against truth that is too unpleasant or frightening to look at straight on.
I like what Kevin Smith has to say about religion in Dogma:
Rufus: (Talking about Jesus) He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
BETHANY: Having beliefs isn't good?
RUFUS: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant.
As to WHY we have to have these beleifs? I think it's because of fear. We are afraid of what we don't know, and putting up a belief structure to explain what we don't know makes us feel safer. It also allows people to make sense out of that which has no sense.
It's easier to go through life with someone to blame for all the bad stuff that happens to us, and for the random good things that happen to us, than it is to believe that maybe things just happen. God, religion, whatever, is the ultimate scapegoat and is conveniently never around to defend himself.
I think this quote sums it all up for me, from (I think) George Carlin: God is an invisible friend for adults.
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May those who love us love us And those who don't love us May God turn their hearts, And if He doesn't turn their hearts, May He turn their ankles, So we'll know them by their limping.
We are afraid of what we don't know, and putting up a belief structure to explain what we don't know makes us feel safer. It also allows people to make sense out of that which has no sense.
It's easier to go through life with someone to blame for all the bad stuff that happens to us, and for the random good things that happen to us, than it is to believe that maybe things just happen.
My point exactly...wouldn't life be more ALIVE if we had the ability to look at mortality full on and just accept that there are things we will never completely know?
When I wake up in the morning, I say to myself-- well this might be my last. It makes every daily encounter with people and other tasks, little details, important and cherished, just simply because it happened...It forces me to really be aware of my suroundings.
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