Dear Lord, lest I continue in my complacent ways, help me to remember that someone died for me today. And if there be war, help me to remember to ask and to answer "am I worth dying for?" - Eleanor Roosevelt
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
I don't know about your initial post, but the one in which you use your overt bigotry by claiming "typical white man behavior" was not. When you resort to these tactics, you should fully expect the concurrent "injun" comments, along with the ever-popular title of "Tonto", "Kemo Sabe", or any other pejorative slur that pops into the "white men's" heads. I, for one, will not kiss your ass as you incessantly drone about the mistreatment of "your people" by "my people." Neither of us were alive when those atrocities took place, and as such, neither of us has a right to claim either victor or victim status because of it. The examples of your obsession are numerous, as well as the sympathy from many of the resident bleeding hearts.
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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859
Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. ~Mark Twain
Look -- you don't take license to do something you criticize somebody else for, because they did it first and now it's open season.
Why not Lynn? In the 22 days after Dogshirt spewed his hateful and bigoted remark, you kept silent about it, along with everyone else until on Sept 10, I decided to confront him. By implication, his comments were acceptable, and as such, so are mine. Deal with it.
President Bush refused to press Israel for a cease-fire in Mideast violence Friday, risking a wider breach with world leaders at a weekend summit already confronting crises with Iran and North Korea.
Flying here from Germany, Bush called the leaders of Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan to explore ways to end three days of furious fighting between Israel and Hezbollah militants in Lebanon. Turning aside complaints that Israel is using excessive force, Bush rejected a cease-fire plea from Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora.
"The president is not going to make military decisions for Israel," White House press secretary Tony Snow said. He said it was unlikely that either side would agree to a cease-fire now.
The eruption of Mideast violence moved prominently onto the agenda of the summit beginning Saturday.
In contrast with Bush's stand, Russian President Vladimir Putin said, "No hostage-takings are acceptable ... but neither is the use of full-scale force in response to these, even if unlawful, actions. We will demand that all sides involved in the conflict immediately stop the bloodshed."
The summit is expected to issue a Mideast declaration, and the United States tried to shape it to be critical of Hezbollah and supportive of Lebanon's fragile government.
French President Jacques Chirac accused Israel of going too far. "One could ask if today there is not a sort of will to destroy Lebanon, its equipment, its roads, its communications," said Chirac, who has tried to patch relations with the U.S. after disagreements over the Iraq war.
Over the last, er, um, bunch of years, has or has not the nation of Israel agreed to ceasefires at the request of the United States and the international community?
If you were Israeli, would you feel that continued ceasefires or the failure to act militarily increases or decreases your sovereignty? Is it capitulation?
Since it has become painfully obvious that the religious enemies of Israel have no intention of letting them live in peace, doesn't it stand to reason, especially after their pull out in Gaza, that Israel should at some point take a firm stance, rebuking their enemies?
Considering all the terrorism that has surfaced lo this last decade, doesn't Israel have every right to fight it along with every other nation that so chooses?
These questions may seem somewhat unrelated to the events currently taking place, but I feel they are very relevant to the state of things in the region.
This was the first post of the topic, shall we return to it? I see the discussion getting side-tracked.
What do you think of Obadiah Shoher's views on the Middle East conflict? One can argue, of course, that Shoher is ultra-right, but his followers are far from being a marginal group. Also, he rejects Jewish moralistic reasoning - that's alone is highly unusual for the Israeli right. And he is very influential here in Israel. So what do you think?
What do you think of Obadiah Shoher's views on the Middle East conflict? One can argue, of course, that Shoher is ultra-right, but his followers are far from being a marginal group. Also, he rejects Jewish moralistic reasoning - that's alone is highly unusual for the Israeli right. And he is very influential here in Israel. So what do you think? uh, here's the site in question: Middle East conflict
What do you think of Obadiah Shoher's views on the Middle East conflict? One can argue, of course, that Shoher is ultra-right, but his followers are far from being a marginal group. Also, he rejects Jewish moralistic reasoning - that's alone is highly unusual for the Israeli right. And he is very influential here in Israel. So what do you think? uh, here's the site in question: Middle East conflict
Bumping up this thread in light of recent developments.
Wonder how this is going to play out if the entire lid blows off (let's say, serious Iranian involvement beyond the promise to reward or martyrize any Iranian who defends Palestinians by attacking Israeli interests) in the next week? Bush will either do nothing, and he's hardly in the position to do anything now anyway -- or he will try to do something as a last gasp, in the name of alliance, possibly without consulting Obama or the incoming cabinet, and make an unholy mess. Obama, on the other hand, can't very well take charge for another 3 weeks.
Meanwhile, civilians are totally trapped between Hamas, which actually needs to be blown to kingdom come if you could single them out, and the IDF, which seems altogether willing to blow them to kingdom come whether or not it can single them out. Threat of a ground invasion is really chilling.
I cannot bear the fact that there is virtually no medical infrastructure in Gaza left. As many as half of the "survivors" will be casualties within a week without treatment. This at least could be addressed internationally.
I cannot bear the fact that there is virtually no medical infrastructure in Gaza left. As many as half of the "survivors" will be casualties within a week without treatment. This at least could be addressed internationally. - Stoirmeil-
I agree Stoirmeil. Caring for injured civilians should be addressed internationally. It is quite a mess.
Although it appears excessive, I guess if we (like Irael) were getting dinged here and there w/bombs on a regular basis, we'd finally just want to blast them to hell. It's a very sad and scary situation.
Jillian
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"Disappointments are inevitable. Discouragement is a choice."
A shame it is to see that Hamas is willing to sacrifice the innocient Palistians just for a cause. They know Israel doesn't tolerate even one Isreali killed.
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ALL4114Christ!
343 Their blood cries out! NEVER FORGET 9/11!
The 2nd Ammendment. The original Homeland Security!
"To those who would follow laws; laws need not apply. Those who would not follow laws; laws will have no affect upon."
Plato
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C. S. Lewis
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 911
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 Zodiac: Oak
I highly recommend reading: Middle East Perspectives by Rick Francoa I consider Rick to be one of the best Middle East experts in the country, and perhaps the best.
The unfortunate truth is, a situation has been allowed to be created in which it is impossible to avoid great civilian loss. this is, also unfortunately, a great advantage to hamas (I will not dignify them with capitalizing their name). Terrorist groups always use the death of innocents to garner often reluctant support from other nations and humanitarian groups.
Isreals' retaliation is always calculated in the plans of hamas. the very fact that hamas is even acknowledged with ANY legitimacy what so ever results in more innocent death. Not only should we let and encourage Isreal to do what it needs to do, we should be out there helping them. Killing terrorists is in everyone's best interest.
I know that there are those out there that might say I am not looking at it from all sides. I would like to point out that if you feel that way, you are absolutely right. This is a fight that NEEDS a victor, some situations have no compromise and a clear definitive victory needs to be had by one side or the other. As an American I want the side that will benefit my country the most, and that is Israel for many, many reasons. Not to mention the way that Palestine and hamas both conduct themselves lends a clear view of who is the good guy and who is the bad guy.