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Celtic Radio Community > Kirk and Chapel > Describe Your Perfect Church

Posted by: Elspeth 01-Sep-2004, 07:19 AM

So, what would it be? And is it possible to make it happen?

Posted by: Shadows 01-Sep-2004, 07:35 AM

Me on a mountain top on a crisp cool fall morning 20 minutes before sunrise alone with the creator.

And yes it can happen and does.

Posted by: cori 01-Sep-2004, 03:01 PM

Sorry, but there's just no such thing as perfection here on earth. I mean, who can really praise and worship God perfectly and as He deserves?

Posted by: MacErca 01-Sep-2004, 08:00 PM

Yes your are right of course in that we are not perfect.
But I believe the Word says make a "Joyful Noise unto the Lord"
it doesnt have to be perfect, just truthful and from the heart, and not for gain, but just for the sheer joy in lifting His Name up in praise, when will it be perfect,,, not until "this emperfection puts on perfection" "we see as in a mirror darkly, but then face to face" then we will be able to praise Him with perfection, but until that time I will lift my old croaky voice and make that joyful noise unto him, be it in the city streets or in his wonderful creation.

Posted by: cori 02-Sep-2004, 12:41 PM

QUOTE

But I believe the Word says make a "Joyful Noise unto the Lord"
it doesnt have to be perfect, just truthful and from the heart,

Very true. I didn't mean that we shouldn't try.

Posted by: CelticRose 02-Sep-2004, 11:51 PM

My idea of a perfect church doesn't exist either, but I will say what I would like. I would like total harmony, love, acceptance from other believers and no hypocrisy. No fighting, bickering over the grey issues or any issues. That we all have our beliefs and why and should accept others for such as that. I am not saying there is no room for loving debate, but that is what is lacking.......loving debate! I find that I have a lot of anger towards the church for the very lack of the above which to this day hinders me from even wanting to get involved in church. I attend, but that is it.

Posted by: MDF3530 03-Sep-2004, 08:14 AM

My ideal church would be one where the leaders do not use God's name in vain on issues that cross moral, ethical, and political lines.

Can you tell I'm a progressive Catholic

Posted by: Cailiosa 05-Sep-2004, 08:40 AM

I think the closet thing to a perfect church (or body of believers) while on earth is outlined in Acts 2:42-47:
"They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and te together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved."
I went to a church this summer in Panama City, Fl called Northstar that tried to model the early church spoken of in Acts. You could tell they had a passion for God and a love for people, both lost and saved. Their desire was to see lost people come to Christ and those who were already believers grow in their relationship with God.

Posted by: CelticRose 05-Sep-2004, 08:58 AM

Well I told my hubby today that I no longer wanted to go church. I know that comes as shock to some of you, but that is just as I feel. The church that we go to is boring and I get nothing out it and I have been going all this time because of hubby who is adamant that we go to church. This is indeed has no reflection on my faith.

Posted by: MDF3530 05-Sep-2004, 12:50 PM

As far as my ideal church in terms of looks, here is some idea of what the interior would look. It is a picture of St. Margaret of Scotland Church in Chicago, IL. It is the original parish in my neighborhood.

http://www.stmargaretofscotland.com/

Posted by: Elspeth 06-Sep-2004, 06:03 AM

Oh, my Gosh that church is gorgeous Mike!

Rose, I know you're making a bit of a bold move. I pray God soon leads you to where He wants you to be. Personally, I think 'church' has gotten far off the mark. It has become an institution that must be served instead of what it was meant to be as posted by Cailiosa. (and hello to you!

)

Posted by: CelticRose 06-Sep-2004, 04:29 PM

Hi Elspeth! I have since reconsidered my supposed bold move. I have just been feeling a lot of hurt and pain lately and you know how sometimes you think that God is not there for you.............when really He is there the closest with you at that time. Well I asked for forgiveness from God and I decided that I need to be in church for if anything at all to worship and praise and give thanks with other believers, for all His blessings to me. To participate in the breaking of bread and teaching of the Word. I need to quit feeling sorry for myself and get on with life and what God wants me to do. I also need to quit this attitude of what AM I GETTING out of church and be into giving of myself. Gosh! Somebody must have been really been praying for me!

And what Cailiosa had to say was very beautiful.

Posted by: Nova Scotian 16-Mar-2006, 06:22 PM

I'd rather not envision a perfect Church because in this world there can never be such a Church. Why? Because it would be mannaged by man.

Posted by: Antwn 16-Mar-2006, 07:17 PM

My perfect church would be an empty one gathering dust, or converted into a homeless shelter or something infinitely more useful than idle pontificating about "the lord", while for moments of "worship" I would be sitting amongst the ferns in the Olympic Nat. Park forest surrounded by 200 foot fir trees letting myself become immersed in the deep silence......beats platitudes any day in my book.

Posted by: haynes9 17-Mar-2006, 11:25 AM

I agree that the perfect church doesn't exist. And if there was one, I would ruin it once I joined

!

I have gone to church all of my life. Seen good ones and bad ones. Some good guiding principles in a church that I look for are:

1. Preach the Truth without compromise. Don't be afraid if it doesn't follow the accepted party line or is politically incorrect.

2. Preach the Truth with love and compassion. If you have right doctrine but have no love and compassion, you become as a "sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal."

3. Reach out to those that no one cares about. Some churches are afraid to bring in the "lower class of society" because they are afraid that their precious building will get messy. I have no use for them.

4. Have a heart for world missions. The message of Jesus is so good that it is unfair to keep it at home. In order to fulfill Acts 1:8, we must go around the corner and around the world!

5. Make a difference. There are enough social clubs disguising themselves as churches. When we get to Heaven, I would like to know that I have been in a church that made a difference for eternity.

Just my two cents. Have a great day!

Posted by: John Clements 17-Mar-2006, 04:29 PM

If I were to create a new church, it wouldn’t, I repeat, it wouldn’t follow any existing religious doctrine.

In a word, it would simply be based on, integrity.

Bless you all. Notice, I didn’t say God bless you.

John

Posted by: Shadows 18-Mar-2006, 11:37 AM

haynes9 you have hit close to the truth.

Church is an attitude , a feeling, a sense of belonging.

Church is not a building, an entity that needs to be fed, or a forced system of supposed faith.

Belong to the creator and stand in awe of his creations, then give thanks that you "are"....

This does not take some organized, hand in your pocket, controling group of folks to accomplish...

Take control of your own beliefs, be at peace with the creator.

Posted by: Nova Scotian 18-Mar-2006, 01:03 PM

QUOTE (John Clements @ 17-Mar-2006, 05:29 PM)

Well GOD bless you! God IS and thats all there is.

Posted by: Elspeth 20-Mar-2006, 10:20 AM

QUOTE (Shadows @ 18-Mar-2006, 12:37 PM)

Church is an attitude , a feeling, a sense of belonging.

Church is not a building, an entity that needs to be fed, or a forced system of supposed faith.

Belong to the creator and stand in awe of his creations, then give thanks that you "are"....

This does not take some organized, hand in your pocket, controling group of folks to accomplish...

Take control of your own beliefs, be at peace with the creator.

Yep,

Modern 'church-ianity' has gotten SO far of the mark.
Church should NOT be a self-preserving or self-perpetuating institution.
But all too often that is where people get trapped.

But, I do beleive there always was and will be a need for church, as a community of believers. A community to encourage, counsel, support - a grouping of likeminded individuals bonded in sin and salvation, an oasis in the world.

Unfortunately, too few churches rememeber that is the focus.

I too am closer to God in a pine wood that a man-made cathedral. Actual church is often a distraction for me for so many reasons. But it is arrogant of me to say I don't need other Christians. Humans are pack animals. It isn't good to separate ourselves too much. Christ knew that. He sent the disciples out in twos for a reason.

Hey, Johnny and God Bless You! Gotta love you man.

Posted by: John Clements 20-Mar-2006, 11:37 AM

Thank you Elspeth, you just saved me from responding to Nova Scotian.

You know, it’s become obvious to me that this religious debate is a waste breath.
So if you all don’t mind. I’m just gonna get on with trying to live my life as honestly as I can, right here on earth.

Elspeth, forgive me for getting off subject, but when I looked at your painting. They made me feel like I seeing through the eyes of a child, which was a goal of Picasso’s.

Keep at it girl, you got the makings. Johnny

Posted by: ridgeback77 20-Mar-2006, 11:47 AM

I think my perfect church would be in a grove of ancient oaks. Their limbs and branches canopied overhead and a blanket of fallen leaves carpeting the ground.

Posted by: Raven 23-Mar-2006, 01:22 PM

QUOTE (cori @ 01-Sep-2004, 04:01 PM)

Sorry, but there's just no such thing as perfection here on earth. I mean, who can really praise and worship God perfectly and as He deserves?

One with no people in it

and as soon as I joined I would ruin the perfection and harmony of it all

Posted by: Elspeth 23-Mar-2006, 05:07 PM

And maybe you would add to the perfection because I bet you can sing harmony really, really well.

Posted by: MacEoghainn 23-Mar-2006, 06:09 PM

My perfect Church?

........... The Perfect Church will only exsist in the future and that can only happen when:

1 Corinthians 15:51-57 (NIV)

51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." 55"Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

I think I'll let the author of the Book of Revelations describe the perfect Church and site:

Revelation 22:1-5(NIV)

The River of Life
1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever

(MacE wanders away whistling "When the Roll is Called up Yonder")

Posted by: Nova Scotian 23-Mar-2006, 07:38 PM

Because we are not perfect, we need the Church and each other. Has anyone ever seen a Canadian Geese flying alone south for the winter. I'm sure it can be done but it would take a geese flying all alone a lot longer.

Posted by: Tassiecelt 27-Mar-2006, 08:11 AM

Recognising that there is no perfect church this side of glory.......

mine would be celtic, (of course) gaelic and english speaking, in a beautiful stone chapel, maybe on Iona, obeying the scriptures, honouring the sabbath, preaching the word, with all the men in kilts.

dream on...but we can can't we?

Posted by: Raven 27-Mar-2006, 02:13 PM

QUOTE (Elspeth @ 23-Mar-2006, 06:07 PM)

And maybe you would add to the perfection because I bet you can sing harmony really, really well.

You are very kind Elspeth