Patch, You wrote, "Being a Catholic myself, I fail to see the protestant scandal. (please explain further) I thought we Catholics had a lock on scandals!"

Slàinte,

Patch

The Eucharist was given to the Apostles by Christ and so handed down the centuries to the church in the Mass. The protestants pretend that they inherited the Eucharist which is utter nonsense as they have no Eucharist, only a fake version of it. Furthermore they believe in a false Christ as the Christ they purport to know does not reside in the Catholic Eucharist (or so they say they believe), therefore they are entirely fakers and as such give scandal to the Catholic church by presenting to the world as corporations a "divided" Christ, not belonging essentially to the Catholic church. Pope Benedict XVI is saying that Christ essentially and solely belongs to the Catholic church and that all other presentations of Eucharist are false and a scandal to the One, True Body and Blood of Christ. Does this make any sense to you? Or are you one of those people that denigrate the entire church over the mistakes of a few Priests? Or would you care to elaborate on the scandal of the Catholic church, I have not heard of one valid scandal that belonged to the "entire" church. I have heard that some of it's members have brought scandal upon themselves and that the church has issued a renouncement of their personal behavior or were you not aware of that renouncement?

Sla'inte, (my computer does not type Irish Celtic)

Royal O'siodhachain

Patch, I am not an ordained Priest, you and I both are Priest (sacramentally by Baptism and Holy Matrimony) conferred upon us through the annointing, as "we are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart". I at one time considered and was accepted to the seminary for formation to the Priesthood then changed my course to Matrimony. I have seven children and 6 grandchildren. Your function and mine as head of the extended church meaning the home is to direct our families and ourselves to the Sacraments and the Catechism as one of our Priestly obligations.

Slainte,

Royal O'siodhachain

Patch, I am not an ordained Priest, you and I both are Priest (sacramentally by Baptism and Holy Matrimony) conferred upon us through the annointing, as "we are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart". I at one time considered and was accepted to the seminary for formation to the Priesthood then changed my course to Matrimony. I have seven children and 6 grandchildren. Your function and mine as head of the extended church meaning the home is to direct our families and ourselves to the Sacraments and the Catechism as one of our Priestly obligations.

Slainte,

Royal O'siodhachain

I thought I detected some theological training.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Subhuman, My statements are derived directly from Vatican documents, I have not speculated anything here. The question is do you respect the authority of the Vatican, if not simply say so. As far as trolls are concerned, you may find one staring at you from a mirror.

Who is the vatican to assume themself ANY sort of an authority? The catholic church is not the church of the christ, but is a church of man. NO man, not even the pope can know the mind of the Creator.
YOU, my friend are FAR and away TOO full of yourself!
And NO, I am NOT a protestant, I am of a non-christian church.

Dogshirt, Your information is historically incorrect. The entire library of historical record would easily prove your falseness, however suffice it to say that Christ established and gave authority to St Peter long before Constantine. I am in worship at the Ukrainian Catholic church which uses a Liturgy developed during the time of Constantine and that Liturgy reverts to the authority of Christ and Saint Peter, not Constantine. Constantine was merely a King who converted to Catholic and prevented persecution of the Christian and himself worshiped in Catholic doctrine. Constantine conferred no authority upon the Bishops nor Popes as he had no authority to do so, rather the Pope blessed the reign of Constantine and wished him well.

Let get some Historical facts straight. Constantine was not a King, he was a Co- Emperor of the Roman Empire and became a Christian only on his deathbed. He use the political expediency of allying with the Christians in order to win the civil war he was involved in and become sole Emperor. Also Jesus was not a Christian he was a Jew who tried to reform the Jewish Faith. You might say he was a Protestant as he preached out against the Harshness of Judaism of the day. The name Christian is Greek for Followers of the Annointed One and was coined by Saul of Tarsus (St. Paul). The early Christian Church was nothing more than a small sect of Judaism.
I have been labled a "Fallen Catholic" well let me tell you I didn't fall 49 years ago I RAN just as fast as my feet would carry me. Catholicism is a man made organization with man made laws. From the time it allied with Constantine it used it political might to gain immense power and has never given it up.


Camac

When we are no longer separated from the ground of our being, or another words when we know the why.

USN;

I propose the WHY is one of two reasons put forward by Issac Azimov in the 50's:

1.) We are a natural stage in the Evolution of the Universe and life abounds everywhere.

2.) We are an aberation, a freak, and since Nature abhors a freak we are destined to obliteration.

This is of course my humble opinion.


Camac.

I could propose a third angle on it. At my most pessimistic, and to be honest I don't live in nearly that state all the time -- but at my glummest, I think humanity is an evolutionary experiment that is failing: the higher cortical front-loading of the brain should have been coming along equally to put the brakes of rational consideration and delay of gratification on the more automatic, animal-reflex reactions of the limbic system, which is emotionally driven (emotions in the primitive sense of survival: floods of neurotransmitters and hormones that say "Run away! Fight! Eat! Mate!"). In other words, we should have a great deal more control and choice over these things as a result of all that curly grey matter. But the crap shoot was, and is, that all that front-loading could also be put to other uses, like more and more ingenious ways to do damage. And I think, at my worst, that that has come to be the preferred modality. Almost everything we do or devise or create is a two-edged sword of almost infinite potential to do harm as well as good -- that is what separates us from other animals and puts us so terribly out of balance with the ecosystem. The whole construct of religion is only one example.

But don't let me take the joy out of your ice cream today. Most of the time I love us, and even when I don't the species makes me weep rather than rage.

Who is the vatican to assume themself ANY sort of an authority? The catholic church is not the church of the christ, but is a church of man. NO man, not even the pope can know the mind of the Creator.
YOU, my friend are FAR and away TOO full of yourself!
And NO, I am NOT a protestant, I am of a non-christian church.

First if I may royalosiodhachain is to welcome you to our community here at CR where most people share one thing and it is the love of all that is celtic.
I see that you have started a hot topic especially your first and respect that but I see also by your strong remarks towards members are a bit inappropriate and disrespectful.
Your remarks borders on the "extremism" & "fanaticism"especially when you talk about "converting protestant".Is this what it is about? Trying to convert? If so, there is only one thing I can tell you is "live and let live". In my eyes there is nothing more disrespectful then to try to convert others.Because it is thinking that what they believe in is wrong and make them think that what you believe in is right.

Are we going back to medieval time here?[I]

Lady Godiva, I do not know exactly what it is that you are trying to convert me to? Please explain. Your effort to convert me is in direct contradiction to your own estimation of disrespect.

Carmac, I see Saint Patrick somehow missed your family in his tour of Ireland, perhaps you were hiding in the woods somewhere?

USN;

Good on ya Mate.

There is one other inaccuracy from Royal who ever that I would like to correct . I am Scots (born there) not Irish and if I was hiding from anyone (which I more than likely was) it would have been Columba and his boys not Paddy.



Camac.

It is strange that we didn't hear of the excommunication in the in my church. There have been instances where priests are relieved of all priestly duties but still are allowed to remain in the Catholic faith. Excommunication is being removed from all aspects of the church. Pretty harsh!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Ok, I read it. The papers of excommunication were first prepared in 2003 by a Cardinal (who has no power to excommunicate) The Holy See did not excommunicate him. The papers were redone and filed again in 2007 and no action appears to have been taken by the Church to date. This, as any thing else in the Church, is a slow process. I may be wrong but I doubt it will happen this time. I suspect he might loose his authority to administer the rites of the church. We had a church in the U.S. where the Priest was performing gay marriage ceremonies and committing other violations of the faith. His authority was removed by the Church but he was not removed from the Church. As I recall he moved and formed his own church still loosely based on Catholicism but with no financial help from the Catholic organization.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

We had the same situation here in Toronto where a Priest was in flagrant violation of Canonical was defrock so went out and started his own church. Methinks you really have to screw up before the hammer of excommunication falls.

Camac.

Patch;

We had the same situation here in Toronto where a Priest was in flagrant violation of Canonical was defrock so went out and started his own church. Methinks you really have to screw up before the hammer of excommunication falls.

Camac.

The papacy claimed spiritual descent from Peter, when it was founded some hundreds of years later, but I think maybe that's a ways from saying that Jesus appointed Peter as the first Pope. The thing about "upon this rock . . . " was a pun on Peter's name as translated into Greek: Petrus, or "rock;" and what Jesus might have meant by the word which is glossed as "church" in that passage is very likely not the Roman church as it later developed. Then of course, if you read Acts and the epistles, you see that Rome was only one center of apostolic activity, and it had no real claim to supremacy in the spread of the early church just because the world power was still seated there.

All thanks to the rules, but this is an UNMODERATED forum. We ALL enter here knowing that things could get pretty hot. We are NOT children and can defend ourselves! I say let him back in and face the outcome of his OUTRAGEOUS and ignorant posts!

Strong opinions are one thing and most of us have at least some, but insults and harassment are a whole different situation. That is an indication the individual has lost control of "himself."

Slàinte,    

Patch    

I guess happiness is a congregation of 1.
Got to go put in a new window now, later,
JC