What About The Fate Of The Guantanamo Detainees ?, Prisonners without a trial !

Or maybe it's because we have a lot of their more dangerous people cooling their heels down in Gitmo.

..but at the expense of the individual? I can't accept something like that. These are not the tactics of a democracy. It's like they went into a nation wide state of martial law that only applied to those of a certain lineage. And what's worse, it seemed that they didn't need ANY evidence to condemn these people, they simply had to be part of that race.

Unfortunatly we have a much longer tradition with terrorism than the United States.
A democracy is only as strong as she's able to get along with those extremists and extreme demands with using her measures of justice WITHOUT forgetting about any human right.
I hate terrorism. I hate violence. To point iz out clearly.
But to hold people arrested without trials to me is wrong, no matter what they had committed. It's a shame for every democracy.
In my country these people have the right for lawyers, they get their trials; they are also arrested in high security prisons and prosecuted and sentenced by the full measures of laws and justice.
This makes the strength and integrity and wealth of a modern democracy.
To say that desperate imes need desperate means...no, I can't accept it. This would open door for possibilities I don't even want to think of!

I don't want to offend anyone; this is just my honest and strong opinion...

This is one of the consequences I don't want to think of...
I agree, oldraven.

to paraphrase Mr. Spock from Star Trek II The Wrath of Kahn The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The civil rights of one do not, in my modest opinion, outweigh the rights of the millions to be protected, safe and confident that they are not going to die drinking tap water. As people are cleared they are let go. I have not heard anyone else come up with an alternate plan. The government in protecting YOU It may not be perfect, but its what we got, and people from around the world will gladly change places with you. Do you know that in some countries, you would be killed for having an opinion contrary to that countries government?

Maher Arar was an atrocity there was no reason to do that to that man. I believe that they should find the individual responsible for that incident and procecute him. Some one had to sign on the dotted line to transfer him to the Syrians start with that person. Also there is a 30 year old Buddist nun that is in the custody of the US and has been for some time; her crime, coming to the US to escape Chinese persecution in Tibet. So US policy is to arrest everyone who asks for safe haven. Not quite the land of the free is it. Armo how many "isolated incidents" would it that for people to start seeing a pattern. Peckery when have "normal times" existed life is in a constant state of flux, it is violent and chaotic it always has been and always will. I was born in 75 and grew up around the oil fields and refineries of the Gulf Coast during the early Reagan years I saw a documentary on Soviet Missile tactics and some of the old Get under the deck films while others were playing hide and go seek or coloring I was frozen with fear. I knew at the age of 6 I was living in a Soviet target area. Remeber the Maine, Haley's comet falling from the sky the Great Depression. There is always a call for the Government to protect us in every time. And again Peckery the needs of the many ARE JUSTICE OF THE FEW and that was weighed by the lives of all patriots whom have given life and health for the dream that was America.

I can't believe I'm saying this but, it's a very different situation when you're making that sacrifice of yourself. You're taking this way out of context. Spok was talking about himself. He never chose to kill someone else to save the 'many'. And every time Spock said something like that, or anyone on any of the series, the captain made a point that, 'This is not the human way'. We risk the many to save the few.

What color is the sky where you live?

You are quick to attack our governments methods, but again I ask, what is YOUR perfect plan and/or solution? The entire world is waiting for the perfect answer, but there is none.

The sky is white here today. The overall plan is alright. It's the details that are screwed. The US will always have an enemy. It's almost as if you depend on it. It's easy to say that in times like these we have to sacrifice 'that guys' freedom. I asure you, you would think differently if you happened to be 'that guy'. So, if times like these always exist in your country, then when will you ever find peace and freedom for all? Isn't that the whole priciple behind democracy?

Gotta break eggs to make an omlett

Then screw the omlett. I mean............... bah, you keep suckin me into these little cliche's.

Ok. When is that omlett ever going to be finished? You've been breaking eggs since the get go, and yet, no breakfast.




Saying that is completely selfish. Screw the little guy, as long as I'm safe and happy.

Well either they are held as POWs and should be release at wars end but being they are consider detainees I and the issue keeps coming up in court then I feel the detainees need to be tried ASAP and freed or imprisoned or what have you but I feel they need to be tried in the international court because they are not US citizens so technically the US has no jurisdiction over them an international court would.

No US civilian court has jurisdiction, but US military tribunals are appropriate to these trials. No International Court has jurisdiction over these unlawful combatants. They are provisionally listed as unlawful combatants (based, I feel, on a logical application of the 1949 Geneva Accords) in a continuing conflict, ie, the "War on Terror." Just because the "Battle of Afghanistan" or the "Battle of Iraq" happen to be over, the "War" goes on. Even according to the Geneva Protocols (which only apply to lawful combatants), repatriation only occurs after the cessation of active hostilities. This hasn't happened. Al-Quaeda is still out there. The war goes on.

There are two relevant legal decisions here. The Supreme Court decision in Ex Parte Quirin in 1942 approved the use of military tribunals for unlawful combatants (specifically German saboteurs in WWII). It emphasized that unlawful combatants are not privy to the extensive judicial protections applicable to POWs.

The other relevant case here is in 1950 Johnson v. Eisentrager. Here it was decided that enemy aliens who have not entered the United States are not entitled to judicial protection in US courts. Since Gitmo is "technically" Cuban territory (although it is an extraterritorial treaty possession), the unlawful combatants are pretty much limited to what is allowed them by the remanding authority. And that means military tribunals, in all likelihood.

IMHO, these guys did it to themselves when they took up arms against the United States and didn't follow the accepted laws of warfare. They condemned themselves to incarceration as unlawful combatants by not following the Geneva Accords themselves, in particular Article 4(2) which sets forth who is a lawful non-regular combatant. Al-Quaeda fails all the way around and the Taliban fail on sec's a,b and d. Should they be treated humanely? Of course. Do they deserve the same consideration as a regular combatant? Absolutely not. But, show me the proof of torture or abuse. Show me where they are being mistreated. Don't say they are being mistreated because of their accomodations. It isn't that bad. I mean show me the proof of no food. No latrines. Not being allowed to fulfill their religious needs by praying towards Mecca. Lack of medical attention. I have seen no proof of maltreatment. I understand that some are even allowed to write to their families (subject to censorship), and others aren't for security reasons. I don't see the problem.

OldRaven, how many people were screaming in 1944 for the war to hurry up and be over, or we should just quit and leave Hitler and Tojo capable of continuing? Not very many. War is war, and it takes time. Whether it be the war against fascism or the war on terrorism. It matters not a whit. Patience. This is a different type of war. It is against an ideology, not a geopolitical entity. It takes longer to concquer an ideology than a piece of real estate.

Just my tuppence.

Andy


BTW, here is a website with the entire 1949 Geneva Accords.

Here is a copy of the Johnson v. Eisentrager decision.

Here is a copy of Ex Parte Quirin.

But the issue keeps coming up in Civilian courts.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...otus_guantanamo

That's as far back as I can go on yahoos thing without digging and to early for that right now but I seem to remember posting a link to another article where the US Supreme Court is getting involved in this matter which is making this into a civil not military matter.