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> Scots Gaelic: On The Way Out?
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Willow 
Posted: 05-Nov-2003, 09:21 PM
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Just to clear things a a wee bit...
Being from Canada...
The Gealic spoken in NS is a little diffrent from the Gaelic that is spoken in Scotland. It is the same way there is also French in Canada - but it is Quebecoui French - a diffrent dialect than France French. It is based on Scottish Gaelic, but diffrent. smile.gif

The dancing is also diffrent - it has based from the Acadian dancing, and Irish. The French-Canadians also have a for of step dancing themselfes.

If you have been to Cape Breton - you must know of Natalie McMaster. thumbs_up.gif I have seen her a couple times, and she will ask for Irish Dancers to dance at her shows - cause it works - though her music is Cape Breton/Scottish.
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 11-Nov-2003, 08:08 PM
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I think on the subject there are a few things to consider, Gaelic was mainly the language of the north, the poorer regions in which the ppl of the courts in Edinburgh, Dunfermline & so on probably didn't have much interest unless it was concerning soldiers to fight their wars.

The Lowlands being much closer to England were a region where the frontier changed constantly. (Catriona, correct me if I'm wrong but Berwick was the Royal Burgh that is now behind the border in England? I know one of them is.)
Also, the Lowlanders often regarded the ppl from the Highland down their noses, simply because their kings spoke a very similar language, they were regarding themselves as much more civilised.

My point is, it is all worth preserving, simply because there is so much history attached to it.
(sorry but this has to come now) History these days is (alas!) so much romantizised and we tend to see the valiant Highlander a la "Braveheart" and forget that there are other influences and other parts of the Scottish History as well. (I don't know if I'm right (again) but wasn't Robert the Bruce Norman, or at least of Norman descent?)

I for my point would like to learn Gaelic, simply because I think it is a beautiful language when it is spoken (written down it confuses me). But every language has their nice things and bad things. A friend of mine once confessed that he likes it when I speak German because it sounds so much different from what he thought it would be like. I mean that is probably because villains (the dumb sort) in films often have a german accent or an aryan look about them, or because of war films where the German language is spoken harder than necessary because of the effect (and because Hitler gave a bloody bad example of German, so did his Ministers).

/me steps down from the soap box now.

Ta for listening


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Catriona 
Posted: 12-Nov-2003, 04:49 AM
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AD
You are absolutely correct, all culture is worth preserving... the question is 'who decides' which areas of culture should be given the money available?! cool.gif

I come from a family of Gaelic speakers. Apart from a couple of phrases and a few 'wee bit sweary wurds' - and the few Gaelic words which have become common in Lallans - I am not that interested in the language. At the last census only 60K were Gaelic speakers in Scotland.

Lallans now..... well, that's a different kettle of fish altogether! As you say, it is the language of the lowlands, used today by almost everyone in Scotland, to a greater or lesser extent. It is a richly evocative 'language' (open to some debate!) - think of Robert Burns. He writes in Auld Scots, or what some modern Scots now call Lallans (not quite the same thing, but broadly similar).

Yes, the Normans have had a very deep effect on Scotland. The Bruces and Frasers for example!

As for your comments re using the Germans as the 'baddies' in films etc..... it would appear to me that the British now perform that useful function for Hollywood, nowadays!
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Arianrhod 
Posted: 12-Nov-2003, 08:21 AM
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Catriona..

Another question for you, if you don't mind smile.gif

My boyfriends family is from Fife ..
what sort of , yikes how do I say this, with out looking dumb LOL !
What Gaelic would folks from Fife speak ??

I grew up to my neck in my own culture smile.gif
Michale was torn away from his when he was addopted at 3 ,
by his Mexican Step dad ...

My mission , is to help him reclaim HIS culture ..
Just incase anyone wondered what this red headed Italian was doing here smile.gif

Its so sad to me that he never had a chance to grow up with all of this ..
but, as I like to say..
Its NEVER too late, to have a happy childhood !!

Thanks !
In Service to the Dream,
Paula


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Catriona 
Posted: 12-Nov-2003, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE (Arianrhod @ Nov 12 2003, 01:21 PM)
Catriona..

Another question for you, if you don't mind smile.gif

My boyfriends family is from Fife ..
what sort of , yikes how do I say this, with out looking dumb LOL !
What Gaelic would folks from Fife speak ??

I grew up to my neck in my own culture smile.gif
Michale was torn away from his when he was addopted at 3 ,
by his Mexican Step dad ...

My mission , is to help him reclaim HIS culture ..
Just incase anyone wondered what this red headed Italian was doing here smile.gif

Its so sad to me that he never had a chance to grow up with all of this ..
but, as I like to say..
Its NEVER too late, to have a happy childhood !!

Thanks !
In Service to the Dream,
Paula

A
Fife is not in the Highlands. They are not Gaelic speakers (or not in recent memory). Mind you, they DO have a fairly thick and easily recognisable accent! Th

Aon Daonna is living in Fife now, although she is a German by birth, her partner is Scots and she moved over to join him a while ago. She had to 'tune in' her ear to the accent when she first arrived there!
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 12-Nov-2003, 04:36 PM
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Fife is just something completely amiable =)
It is hard to understand because the usual way of speaking scots (or Lallans) is pronounced harder and since I know my boyfriend I completely took over trying to speak how he does. (His mom said to me a few weeks back: "I just can't get used to a German saying "Aye" all the time).

Gaelic is not however the primary language spoken here (Nor was it, to my knowledge for "long"). The "Fifer" accent is very distinct (even under Scots, everybody always "kens": ey, yer from Fife!), compared to the other accents I already heard.

As Catriona said: Fife is not the Highlands, at least 2 of the (original) Royal Burghs are situated here, and Dunfermline used to be the seat of the Kings of Scotland (Pittencrieff park is not out of that time, but still worth a visit!)

I'm still reading into the History of Fife, but usually after a brief excursion of "Kenneth MacAlpine" it wanders off to the Kings Malcolm and Bruce.

And btw: Fife is called "Kingdom of Fife" (just as a notice).

Even though Fife is not the most "touristy" region of Scotland, I think it is worth a visit. I like the rolling hills, the fact that Falkland Palace is just half an hour from my old house, I love the Forth on every day... I just completely fell in love with it, especially because it reminds me alot of where I come from in Germany, but also being so unique as it is. (Goodness, I'm talking pish).. don't mind me, will you?

Just ask me if you have questions and I will get back to you if I know it, or I'll try and find out.
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barddas 
Posted: 12-Nov-2003, 04:41 PM
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Here is alink for anyone interested in scots Gaelic and a few others.. I did not see Lallans... But I have posted a few links to it somewhere.. I'll try and dig them up....


http://www.rampantscotland.com/gaelic.htm


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barddas 
Posted: 12-Nov-2003, 04:54 PM
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Here are a few of the Llallans site I go to...

http://www.lallans.co.uk/index.html


This is a discussion group on languages

http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php

And Cat I am in TOTAL agreement with you as to Lallans being more than just an English dialect.
It gets a bit rough on this english speaker...LOL! wink.gif I'm doin me best ....
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Arianrhod 
Posted: 12-Nov-2003, 10:01 PM
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Allrighty , Im still confussed...
First off I knew Fife , The Kingdom of Fife Oh thats fun to say and type !!!
was not in the Highlands.. from the map..

I was under the impression that the Launguage of Scotland was Gaelic..
Forgive me smile.gif but if I do not ask, I will never learn ..
SO Gaelic is spoken in the Highlands, and ,,Llallans is spoken else where ?

In Italy , everyone speaks Italian, and in the States, everyone speaks English..
I did not mean to assume... so if someone would be so kind to explain it to me smile.gif

I do want to go to Fife , er The Kingdom of Fife ! come on say it out loud !!
its fun ! .. we are saving for a trip to Scotland... going to take a while, but .
in the meantime, I am trying to learn all I can..I don't want to waste time in touristy big cities.. I don't want to do that here either ..

Thanks for you paticence with me heart.gif

In Service to the Dream,
Paula
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Catriona 
Posted: 13-Nov-2003, 04:27 AM
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QUOTE (Arianrhod @ Nov 13 2003, 03:01 AM)
Allrighty , Im still confussed...
First off I knew Fife , The Kingdom of Fife Oh thats fun to say and type !!!
was not in the Highlands.. from the map..

I was under the impression that the Launguage of Scotland was Gaelic..
Forgive me smile.gif but if I do not ask, I will never learn ..
SO Gaelic is spoken in the Highlands, and ,,Llallans is spoken else where ?


In Italy , everyone speaks Italian, and in the States, everyone speaks English..
I did not mean to assume... so if someone would be so kind to explain it to me smile.gif

I do want to go to Fife , er The Kingdom of Fife ! come on say it out loud !!
its fun ! .. we are saving for a trip to Scotland... going to take a while, but .
in the meantime, I am trying to learn all I can..I don't want to waste time in touristy big cities.. I don't want to do that here either ..

Thanks for you paticence with me heart.gif

In Service to the Dream,
Paula


In reality, the main language of Scotland is English, which we all learn at school. However, in our home life, the reality is that most of us speak, to a greater or lesser extent, a form of Lallans/Auld Scots or Doric..... cool.gif It is only in recent times that there has been a move to try to ensure that this, too, as well as Gaelic is preserved as a distinct language, unique to Scotland.

The 'language' of Scotland has not been Gaelic for a very long time - and there is no concensus that it was spoken in the Lowlands to any great degree! So the answer is - Gaelic is ONE of the Scottish languages. I am interested in the preservation and promotion of Lallans and Auld Scots. Have a look at at the text of poetry by Robert Burns or Ferguson... they are written in Auld Scots. There is some dispute about whether Lallans/Auld Scots/Doric are in fact, merely dialects of English. As a proponent of the LANGUAGE of Lallans, I would of course dispute that!

In the last census, only 60 thousand people were found to be Gaelic speakers in the whole of Scotland. Most of them in the North, Islands and Highlands. My grandparents were native Gaelic speakers, my father grew up in a Gaelic speaking household. He spoke Gaelic, but English was HIS first language.

The people from the Kingdom of Fife have a really 'thick' accent. It is as recognisable to a Scot as the accent of a Glaswegian (Weegie) or an Aberdonian or a Dundonian to us natives. As AD has said, it's VERY noticeable! We from the cities refer to countryfolk (ie those from Fife, in this instance, even though they have towns in the Kingdom!) as Teuchters (yokels!) A wee teuchter fae Fife is an affectionate term given by Edinburgh folk to Fifers!


BTW....
The trouble is: a lot of the history is held in the 'touristy big cities' like my hometown, Edinburgh.... cool.gif
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Catriona 
Posted: 13-Nov-2003, 04:34 AM
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QUOTE (barddas @ Nov 12 2003, 09:54 PM)


And Cat I am in TOTAL agreement with you as to Lallans being more than just an English dialect.
It gets a bit rough on this english speaker...LOL! wink.gif I'm doin me best ....

As you visit some of the Lallans sites, you will be aware of the blood-pressure raising qualities of ANY discussion involving 'Dialect/language' questions!!!!
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Arianrhod 
Posted: 13-Nov-2003, 07:37 AM
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Catriona,
Now I understand, thank you for your kindness in explaining it to me *curtsey*

I know as far as somethings go, cities are un avoidable.. but for the most part,
I'd like to see more of the places away from cities .. whenever I can smile.gif

Now I better start diggin around in those links...

I wonder if eveyone , is as ignorant to the fact , as I was about the Launguage?
My parents tried so hard, not to let their kids become the type of person , who just assumed , everyone spoke * whatever tounge you care to insert here* ..
and here I find myself doing just that ! Since they came to the States not speaking a work of English..

Well I am off to work, its snowing AND thundering and lighting here ...
interesting morning ..

Again my thanks Catriona!
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 13-Nov-2003, 02:12 PM
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Concerning Lallans/Doric/Auld Scots etc and English... it always depends on what you look at. In general speaking English is nothing more than a French bastardisation of old Germanic.
What I observed by now is that in those languages above there is alot more of Germanic words preserved than in actual English (as in Oxbridge English). A great example is "I ken" for "I know". It reminds me alot of the German version of this sentence: "Ich kenne". There are more examples for that, I will have a look (or much rather "hear") and find out.
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Catriona 
Posted: 13-Nov-2003, 03:28 PM
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Yep, yer richt err, AD!!! biggrin.gif

And certainly if you read Robert Burns' poetry, I am sure that you could certainly make a guess at certain Auld Scots words, and would right on more occasions that an English person reading the same poem! cool.gif

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Annabelle 
Posted: 13-Nov-2003, 11:27 PM
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F'ailte Athair! I am pleased as punch as they say in the South to hear Scot Gaelic is being taught up there. Gasda!
I have been learning Gaelic for the last 4 years...My family is in Huntley, Scotland and I'm in the USA although when there they insist on it...when we go out to the Herbrides it is completely all Gaelic out there for most part...so I'm glad to hear that people are trying to keep it from falling off of the face of the Earth...

I had a conversation with BWoods the other night in Gaelic here on the network but had to stop cause our friends felt left out...I can understand their feelings when you are around others who don't speak the language it is a little unsettling...

But thanks for the good news!

Annabelle


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