Bush Policies

Corwyn (Cory) William Zimbleman of Tucson, AZ (formerly of Champaign, IL) recently died. He was born in April 18, 1952 and died June 10, 2005.

Some people just can't seem to MoveOn...even after they've moved on.

OK. People are born everyday, and people die everyday. But what makes this guy special is the obituary his folks wrote for him on tucson.com:

The bitterness of this screed and the effort they put into insulting everyone they obviously hate shouldn't stand as anyone's obituary. If that's the way they want Tucson to remember their loved one, the Zimblemans must be sad, lonely, and incredibly petty people, who (if their premise is correct) will soon be following Cory into the hereafter as victims of heart failure due to Bush Derangement Syndrome.

On the other hand, perhaps this might be good news for the Left. They could use it to explain how Dick Durbin lost his mind, and the rest of the Democratic leadership lost their judgment in supporting Durbin. It sounds as reasonable as any of their rationalizations over the past week.

Actually as of today that despotic little sack of shite has murdered 1725 American soldiers, butchered 12855 more, and murdered approximately 100,000 innocent Iraqis, all for a lie!

God damn that stupid little martinet straight to hell! God damn every sycophant Republican, Quisling Democrat and especially every ignorant, idiotic, pseudo-patriotic chickenhawk cheerleader who in any way contributed to inflicting these bastards upon this country and the world!

Why don't you peddle your neo-fascist right-wingnut bullshit somewhere else, because nobody's buying it here!

I love the fact that every right-winger has forgotten (or omitted) the fact that Senator Dick Durbin (who, most Democrats and Republicans in Illinois will agree, has been a damn fine member of the Illinois congessional delegation), when speaking out against the Guantanamo Bay facility, was quoting from FBI documents that compared Guantanamo to Soviet gulags and Nazi interment camps.

It's nice to see that no matter what we think of the politicians, that we can still disagree without calling each other names or resorting to profanity.

I agree with CarolinaScotsman we can express our opinion without the foul language and name calling. In case you don't know we do have kids who use this site and a lot of people who just don't use that kind of language. With that being said. Throughout our life time people are going to be elected to offices that we don't feel should be in those offices, policies are going to to be passed that all of us don't agree with. The point is this is AMERICA and we have a right to disagree. If a family blames the political system for a love ones death then something is wrong with them. Personally I was so disappointed when Clinton was elected to office not just once but twice, but it didn't make me physically sick or want to leave this country. That would be such a cop-out. I got involved.

My feeling of the problems of Guantanamo is, THIS IS WAR!!!!! Those people are treated far better than any of our guys would be. They aren't US citizen and they aren't entitled to the same right that we have. Do you really think if the situation were different that these prisoners would care about our mens religious and civil rights. NO THEY WOULD NOT. These men are using the media to get sympathy and the media is play into their hands.

Time and time again the Liberals seem to forget that the Geneva Convention does not apply to anyone in Gitmo. The US could have every one of them shot on sight. That we keep them alive, fed, clothed, and sheltered says that the US cares for the individual, even if that individual wants to kill as many US citizens as possible.

The US is at war with radical Islam. They have been attacking us for the last 20 years. Has everyone forgotten about the 241 US Marines killed in Beirut,? Has everyone forgotten about the bombing of the USS Cole or the attempted bombing of the USS The Sullivans? Has everyone forgotten about the Khobar Towers Bombing? Apparently there is a section of the US that doesn't mind seeing members of the US military getting killed - even though they say Bush "has murdered 1725 American soldiers". That screams of hypocracy.

Han everyone forgotten about the 1972 Munich Olympic games? Has everyone forgotten about the use of suicide bombers in the Middle East? Has everyone forgotten about the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103? Has everyone forgotten about the Palestinian terrorist Sirhan Sirhan who assassinated Robert F. Kennedy (claiming he was upset at and wanting revenge for the Senator?s support of Israel)? Has everyone forgotten about the 1993 World Trade Center bombing? Has everyone forgotten about the bombing of the American embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania (bombed almost simultaneously)? Apparently there is a section of the US that doesn't mind seeing innocent civilians getting killed - even though they say Bush "murdered approximately 100,000 innocent Iraqis". That screams of hypocracy.

Radical Islam has been attacking the US for the last 20 years. I'm just happy someone in Washington is taking the fight back to them on their own turf.

And then there is the tired yelp of "a lie". This has become such a trite and meaningless statement. I'm assuming that by "a lie" you mean the idea that Saddam was building WMD's, the same WMD's that the following people publically stated that existed:
- President Clinton
- Vice President Gore
- Madeline Albright
- Sandy Berger (Clinton National Security Adviser)
- Sen. John F. Kerry
- Sen. Carl Levin
- Sen. Tom Daschle
- Sen. Ted Kennedy
- Sen. Robert Byrd
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller
- Sen. Hillary Clinton
- Sen. Bob Graham
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi

In April 1991 Iraq tells UN that it has never had any biological materials, weapons, research or facilities. But only 4 months later Iraq admits to a biological weapons research program.

UNSCOM inspectors came up with evidence suggesting that Iraq carried out biological weapons tests on human beings in 1995.

In July 1995 Iraq admits to have made substantial progress in its biological weapons program, making just under 30,000 litres of biological agents and filled munitions. This included 19,000 litres of Botulinium, 8,400 liters of antrax and 2,000 liters of aflatoxin and clostridium. It was also said that Saddam would have his first nuke in three years. ("The Scotsman dossier - SPECIAL REPORT ON IRAQ" by Fraser Nelson, Westminster Editor)

In August 1995 Iraq admits to having produced 191 biological bombs, of which 25 were missile warheads which had been loaded with anthrax, botulinum and aflatoxin for use in the Gulf war. Also in August 1995 Saddam?s son-in-law, Lt. General Hussain Kamil, defected to the US from Iraq. He had been placed in charge of Iraq's WMD program and provided substantial evidence.

Faced with Lt. General Kamil's defection to the US, Iraq then admitted to starting its attempts at a fast-track nuclear program, which involved diverting nuclear fuel from power stations to the weapons laboratories. That's right, you Liberals, 'ole Saddam was sneaking nuclear fuel out of his power stations and trying very quickly to build a nuke.

In August 1998 UNSCOM knows where the three nearly complete nuclear bombs are hidden. The UN team is also said by Mr Ritter (the longest-serving American weapons inspector) to have information on the method used to conceal the bombs, the units and officers responsible for guarding them, and the types of vehicle employed to transport them in the game of cat and mouse between Saddam and the UN experts. Mr Ritter claimed that, despite the information available, no order was given to the team to conduct a surprise inspection of the site. He claimed that the Security Council and the Clinton Administration had blocked the work of the inspectors just as they were "on the doorstep" of uncovering Iraq's hidden non-conventional weapons of mass destruction. ("Ritter: Baghdad 'possesses three nuclear bombs,'" by Christopher Walker, Times of London, 9/10/98)

In September 1998 Ritter was invited to testify at a joint hearing of the Senate Armed Services and Foreign Relations committees on September 3, 1998. Ritter wasted no time in offering his assessment of the continuing threat: "Iraq has not been disarmed." The United States, he claimed, had deliberately thwarted the U.N. inspections for fear of a confrontation with Iraq. He ripped the administration for its refusal to back up the inspections process with a legitimate use of force, including, but not limited to, removing Saddam Hussein's regime. (http://www.theweeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/000/524dplvk.asp)

Ritter also said in September that Iraq was hiding three technologically complete nuclear bombs and is lacking only fissionable materials to make them operational.

In April 2001 August Hanning, head of the BND (German?s Federal Intelligence service), gives an interview to a German Sunday newspaper. "New chemical weapons are being developed in Iraq. German companies apparently tried to deliver important components for the production of poison gas to Iraq?s Samara plant."

In December 2001 a former Iraqi nuclear scientist, Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri, who has defected to the US, gives an interview to the New York Times. It appeared on page 1 of the New York Times on 20 December 2001, entitled: "A nation challenged: Secret sites". His evidence is described as ?plausible? by Richard Butler, an Australian former head of UN Iraq inspections. Mr Saeed said that:
- Iraq has reactivated 300 secret weapons laboratories since the withdrawal of UN weapons inspectors
- Nuclear production and storage facilities are being hidden to the rear of government companies and private villas in residential areas.
- Weapons are being stored underground in what are made to look like water wells, lined with lead-filled concrete.
- Several empty facilities have been prepared, so projects can be on the move and withstand the bombing of one facility
- Material from Leycochem, a German construction company, had arrived for under UN-approved schemes, but then redirected to nuclear development.
- Biological weapons were being developed at the back of the Saddam Hussein hospital in Baghdad.

On July 31, 2002, The Washington Post runs a detailed report ("Reality is uncertainty," by Joby Warrick, Washington Post, 31 July 2002) suggesting that the CIA has found a laboratory called Tahhaddy, or "Challenge", on the west bank of the Tigris river, employing a team of 85 scientists working on a viral strain code-named Blue Nile. Details sound similar to Ebola Virus, a lethal hemorrhagic disease.

So to use that old, tired saying of "Bush lied" is in itself a lie. And you can easily see that it doesn't take an "ignorant, idiotic, pseudo-patriotic chickenhawk cheerleader" to see that Saddam was, in fact, building WMD's. Grow up and use your brain. Read something other than press releases from MoveOn.org. Listen to someone other than Dan Rather. Check up on anything I've posted here. The real question is "Where are they now?"

These are verifiable facts, not "neo-fascist right-wingnut bullshit", although a good Liberal never allows facts to get in the way of name-calling (something that nobody's buying).

AMEN SHAMALAMA!!!!

I'm not going to try to rationally debate someone who is so solidly impervious to facts (and so ready to invent them on the fly) that they are essentially delusional and immune to reason. A Republican decrying the degeneration of civil political discourse in this country is like someone who's been defecating in the communal well for years loudly complaining that the water tastes funny. Any review of your posts on this forum will show an outright contempt for concepts and ideas of which you obviously haven't even the slightest understanding, a cruel Ann Coulterish castigation and sneering ridicule of people you dishonestly portray and whose words you freely distort, and the masturbatory militarism and smug sophistic arrogance of a rather dull schoolyard bully. I truly believe that you've more than adequately demonstrated that your shirt's brown, regardless of what flag you choose to desecrate by wrapping yourself in. I stand by every single word I said, and I meant every single word from the bottom of my heart. You and everyone like you represent the absolute worst of America. You and everyone like you are anathema to true democracy. You and everyone like you are destroying this country and destroying this planet. That makes you and everyone like you my mortal enemy, and I sincerely wish you and everyone like you nothing less than hell and death.

When are you folks going to stop replying to the dribble that some of our members want to infest us with... no replys and the topic just dies and no one has to suffer the right wing dribble any more...

Simple ain't it?

Please keep comments and opinion cival and none flaming!

Ad hominem attack.

Rational discource?

Rational debate?

Truth hurts when faced. If you disagree with the facts, dispute them. Stop the rabid attacks, it results in nothing.

You make some very good and valid points in this post. But the issue I do not agree with you on is that since the detainees at Guantanamo are not typical POWs, the Geneva Convention rules do not apply. Legally, they do not. But morally I (now this is just my opinion now) think they do.
My concern is that if we feel that since the detainees are terrorists (which they are), we can treat them any way we want. Torture them, mistreat them, whatever.
My feeling here is that we are Americans. American troops and citizens do not torture, etc our prisoners, no matter who or what they are.
From my understanding of who and what we (the USA) are, actions such as those at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo are not tolerable. Again, only my opinion.

A second more minor point: Not only is the US at war with radical Islam, the whole world is too. Again, that is radical Islam.

This will be my last post. I have to deal with this kind of BS with the meth heads I arrest. I don't need it on my off duty time. I can accept the fact that Emmet is barking mad, but why didn't any one take him to task?

I have enjoyed Highlander radio but I know when it is time to leave. Shamalama, you will be missed, come visit Arizona some day.

Emmet, I pity you.

Whew, let's take a time-out here. Emotions are flaring, and with that logic and reasoning disappear.

Brother erickbloodax, you so vividly see what is at stake here, and a good fight is worth fighting. I do not want to see you leave, but I will understand if you do.

Brother j Padraig moore, I wholeheartedly agree that American troops and citizens should not torture, etc our prisoners, no matter who or what they are. That said, I do not always jump to conclusions when someone we've detained, someone that has vowed to kill as many Americans as possible, state in public that they were tortured. Why is it that so many of us are so quick to believe them? Why is it that so many of us are so quick to believe that the US military are the evil ones? That disturbs me.

And I will freely admit that with 250,000 US forces currently engaged it is not impossible to see that a few will abuse their position. They will cause the debacle at Abu Ghraib. They will abuse their roles at Gitmo. But for so many elected officials, and so many of the media, and so many of us, to raise such a cry that Gitmo must be closed when there are only rumors and accusations of mistreatment, is to degrade the entirety of the US military and to do so based on the words of (1) the enemy, and (2) unsubstantiated facts. Amnesty International had to take back their words. A recent visit by several Congresspeople showed Gitmo to be in order. I do suspect that so many negative comments originate from people that simply WISH and HOPE that they can find something wrong.

Brother Shadows, I suspect the replies will continue, as will debatable topics. Whether you read them or not, and suffer any right wing dribble, is entirely up to you. I like it.

Sister gwenlee, thank you for your acknowledgement. Yes, there are Conservative voices in the US. There are Red States. There are enough of us that we voted in a majority in the Senate and the House, and voted in a President. That many voices cannot be silenced.

There are those with differing opinions. Some can be swayed with logic and fact. Some are so filled with bitterness and hate that they only see what they want to see. Those are the people that cannot be debated, and their bitter words should not inflame anyone. Look at their language, their choice of words, and you easily see the character of that person.

I tried to submit facts, verifiable facts, to show that the notion of "a lie" was a false notion. I tried to submit facts, verifiable facts, to show that liberal leaders of the US also thought that not only did Saddam possess WMD, but that he was willing to either use them himself or sell them to the highest bidder. I did not invent any of them on the fly, but rather researched and found them. A simple re-verify of any of them should prove my statements, whether you like it or not. I don't consider myself to be either delusional or immune to reason when I supply facts for all to see. It would be a delusional person that would see facts and still choose not to believe.

Like others here I stand by every single word I say. If anything I've posted can be shown to be inaccurate I will stand corrected. But mere ranting against me does nothing - I am much too old for those games. But I do not, and will not, consider anyone here to be my mortal enemy, and I sincerely wish everyone here eternal life in Heaven (where there will be NO debating).

You have tried nothing, you did submit facts; verifiable facts.

It is unfortunate that some people prefer ranting and raving to a honest discussion of facts. As with any discussion, facts will oppose and collide. It is the discussion that generates the understanding. Whether anyone is persuaded to change their mind is wholly dependant upon their open-mindedness to the discussion. Rarely have I seen this to occur. Typically, the discussion degenerates into a rant or name calling with no completion of the discussion.

You are correct sir, you are not trying to debate. No one here has called you contemptuous names, but you seem unable to display anything but an emotional diatribe. Over the years, I have learned that such anger is generated in people who are wrong and have no facts to fall back on. You can only call names, like an immature and spoiled childhood bully. I suggest that you owe some folks an apology. I am not naive enough to think that you will give one. I also suggest, that the people who are ruining America are those who believe they are right and everyone else is evil.

What makes this country great is a diversity of opinion and a willingness to listen to anyone's LEGITIMATE argument. There are many sides to every issue. We all want what is best for our families, friends and our country; we disagree on the best way to achieve that result. That is why we have discussion and debate. Name calling and venting of pure bile are actions that are beneath pure Democracy and are not worthy mature, intelligent discussion and debate.

Growing up, I was called names, bullied and ostrascized by the same group of folks who are now heavily involved in "doing what's right for the poor, ignorant masses." They are still bullies but have found justification in the liberal credo. While not all liberals belong to that group of people, those who do are unwilling to see their own faulty and circular reasoning: "What is best is best because I say it is best." No facts are given and opposition is met with pure vitriolic hatred.