| QUOTE (Keltic @ Nov 5 2003, 11:21 PM) |
| Not the Tooth Fairy too!! |
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| Celtic Radio Community > General Discussion > Truth Or Lie About Santa? |
| Posted by: maryellen 05-Nov-2003, 08:22 PM |
| As parents, I think that children should not be lied to and told there is a Santa when there actually is no Santa. Many parents disagree of course. Just seeing how others treat this subject. |
| Posted by: kidclaymore 05-Nov-2003, 08:32 PM |
| To me its just part of childhood, and it don't do any harm. I don't know anybody thats had their life mess up by telling them that there is a santa, and they usually figure it out for themselves by the time they reach 10 or 11. And its also tradition. |
| Posted by: Elspeth 05-Nov-2003, 09:32 PM |
| We've done Santa. Wouldn't have missed it. Kids need fantasy. Have the rest of their lives to be 'real'. I look at it that it isn't a lot different than literature. Everyone knows who Tiny Tim is. Is he real? No, but we all know him. And we all half believe he is real. |
| Posted by: Dreamer1 05-Nov-2003, 10:11 PM |
| I completely agree with Elspeth!! Children nowadays have far too much reality to deal with. Their innocence and trust in others has been eroded by all the news stories about kidnappings, assaults,murders, ...you know the list! Our children aren't deaf to these things, even though we may think they haven't heard them -or weren't paying attention to that news report. Such things are absorbed and filtered through their consciousness, until the questions suddenly pop out one day when we least expect them. For these reasons, and to help our girls enjoy and expand their imaginations, we've always kept up the traditions of Santa, the Easter Bunny, even the ToothFairy! There's no harm in these things if we're careful, when the child is ready to ask us about them, in the way we answer them. I don't completely buy into the notion that "there is no Santa!" because we all have continued in the footsteps of a real man who honestly cared about children. As parents, we've kept Santa alive through the centuries. Sometimes I think we all could use a good, strong, healthy dose of child-like innocence again! Dreamer1 |
| Posted by: Keltic 05-Nov-2003, 10:19 PM |
| Two out of our four have figured it out and now want to pass the fun on to their younger brothers. Our oldest figured it out as her thought became more logical. It didn't take long for her brother to realize the same. The children aren't scarred and they now know that there is a difference in lying for self preservation or advancement and "lying" for the joy or protection of others. Most things in life can be used as a lesson as long as they are presented properly. To reiterate what Elspeth said, children need fantasy and have the rest of their lives to be 'real'. |
| Posted by: Keltic 05-Nov-2003, 10:21 PM | ||
Not the Tooth Fairy too!! |
| Posted by: Dreamer1 05-Nov-2003, 10:33 PM | ||
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| Posted by: Elspeth 05-Nov-2003, 11:33 PM |
| OK, how many parents panicked because they realized they forgot to put the money under the pillow? Tell me I'm not the only one!  Luckily, we've always caught it in time.  |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 06-Nov-2003, 01:26 AM | ||
What do you mean No Santa? Where were you when they showed "Miracle on 34th Street" ? Santa is a State of Mind. Without any possible thoughts of Innocence, just hard cold facts. Then there isn't any wonder why there is so much negativity in this World. The Santa you my be referring to is actually named Advertisements. Even though I am not a Christian, why can't we at lest save one day a year for all of mankind for Peace and Fellowship? So lighten up a little bit and let kids be kids. Life as an Adult is going to be hard enough as it is. |
| Posted by: scottish2 06-Nov-2003, 05:38 AM |
| Look at it this way you're stretching the truth a little but not outright lying. There was in fact 2 people whom Santa's origins can be traced. That of (both are links so feel free to click away) http://www.gironet.nl/home/bmbalk/sinterklaas1.htm And http://www.christmas-time.com/cp-santa.html So while he may not exist today he did exist in History.  So I voted for let them find out in time not at certain year or immediately. They need to have fantasy in their lives then when it comes time to tell then tell them the history of Santa and how once he did exist giving out presents to children |
| Posted by: oldraven 06-Nov-2003, 10:55 AM |
Santa Claus is the spirit of Christmas incarnate. And so has always existed, and always will. The man did exist at one point, and so his memory lives on. I don't see a problem with it at all. It made Christmas all the more enjoyable for me when I still believed, and even to this day I can't help buy get anxious when I see the man in the red suit.  |
| Posted by: barddas 06-Nov-2003, 11:01 AM | ||
Here, here, brother! |
| Posted by: Dreamer1 06-Nov-2003, 11:55 AM | ||
Elspeth, Know how you feel!  It's only happened once, but that's enough. Fortunately, 5:00am is her deepest sleep time! Didn't notice a thing. PHEW. Dreamer1 |
| Posted by: Hollie Blue 06-Nov-2003, 12:01 PM |
| Children should know the difference between fiction/fantasy ~ reality. It's ok to let them have fun in the merriment get caught up and fantasize. They should know it's all in fun, tradition, and yes even history..... We should not lie to our children....we should enjoy the fantasy w/ them. Have fun and rejoice!  |
| Posted by: RavenWing 06-Nov-2003, 12:14 PM |
| I still believe in santa. |
| Posted by: oldraven 06-Nov-2003, 12:20 PM |
| Santa's out there guys. If only as a state of mind. |
| Posted by: Keltic 06-Nov-2003, 12:31 PM | ||
I am famous for that. I have had to go up and "find" the money in the morning for the kids. At one point, my son came down in the morning and told me that I had forgotten to put the money under his pillow. They figure it out on their own. |
| Posted by: silverdragon 06-Nov-2003, 01:19 PM | ||
Guilty, and I didn't always catch myself... Note to self: warn sons not to try this when THEY have kids...  |
| Posted by: Angel Whitefang 06-Nov-2003, 04:35 PM |
| Have you ever given a gift to a child who you knew would have nothing and signed it Santa? Or gave a coat to some one who is freezing in the winter, Helped serve food in a shelter, Helped the elderly get food, helped your community in anyway? I have. We are all Santa in one form or another. Every time you give food to a homeless shelter your being Santa. Santa is the spirit of giving to those who are less fortunate then you are. It's not necessarily a specific person and yes, I have taught my children that. Being Santa isn't only at Christmas it's all year long. So you can't say that there is no Santa, YOU & I are Santa. every time you share what you have with those that don't have anything you are being Santa. In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust, Blessed Be, Angel |
| Posted by: oldraven 06-Nov-2003, 04:40 PM | ||
 Just as I said. Santa is the spirit of Christmas in all of us. |
| Posted by: scottish2 06-Nov-2003, 04:41 PM |
| Agreed Angel!!! PEACE!  |
| Posted by: MDF3530 06-Nov-2003, 04:47 PM |
| I say let the kids live their fantasy. They will figure it by themselves out sooner or later. I did when I was 8 or 9. |
| Posted by: maggiemahone1 06-Nov-2003, 06:12 PM | ||
I agree with you maryellen. I never told my children there was a Santa and they don't appear to be too warped. All 3 are married now and they have chosen to tell their children about Santa. Grandma just shakes her head!  maggiemahone1 |
| Posted by: Elspeth 06-Nov-2003, 08:37 PM |
| Having older siblings, I don't remember believing in Santa in the conventional sense. I remember pretending I did so as to not disappoint my family. But on the other hand, I kept the spirit if Santa in my heart always. For many a year I have gone outside at exactly midnight and you can call me a nut but I hear sleigh bells. Actually hear the far off jingling of those magic bells. And for that brief moment the world is wonderful and magical. Burdens disappear and I am a child again. I will never forget the Christmas six years ago when many circumstances converged to create one of the most difficult times of my life. I stood in the snow, needing so badly to hear those bells. But for the first time, they were not there. If that is what it is like to be an adult, I will stay a child forever. |
| Posted by: scottish2 06-Nov-2003, 08:44 PM |
    Just joking but I had your permission LOL |
| Posted by: Elspeth 06-Nov-2003, 09:17 PM |
| Ah, we have a literalist in our midst! Let me guess, they bring you in for the comic relief, right? |
| Posted by: scottish2 06-Nov-2003, 09:19 PM |
| That's what lack of sleep with do LOL |
| Posted by: Annabelle 06-Nov-2003, 11:41 PM |
| Santa's not real? I'm 18 now...does that mean I'm a grown up! Well that bites big time... Annabelle |
| Posted by: Therasa 29-Nov-2003, 05:09 AM |
| I can see that this particular chat is not as active as others may be. But I just had a chat with my sister on this very topic. And seein as Christmas is not all that far off, I wanted to I guess, restart this chat. As children I know that pretty much every child sees santa as a jolly man who comes to your home christmas eve. You leave him a snack with a drink. Sometimes even Rudolph gets a snack. (was never sure how happy the other reindeer were with this.  ) But after all was said and done, he left you gifts. Depending of course on how good you had been all year.In my house and alot of other homes, this was a 'threat'. "If you don't clean your room santa won't leave you anything but a lump of coal." I never got coal, and my room was never clean. As for my children, in the beginning it was the man with the gifts. But over the last few years I have changed, ever so slightly, who santa is and what he does. We talk about how santa is in our hearts, he is the respect and kindness at Christmas. He is the caring you show others. (and this is all year, not just thelast minute rush on being good) When the boys were born, I started to give a little more. Volunteering and what have you. But I make a point of letting the boys help and make decisions when it comes to sharing at christmas. They pick one card each off the christmas tree in town. It only has the gender and the age of a less fortunate child. We head off to the mall and they help choose presents. In the end, they sign the cards, 'from santa'. I must admit it is hard on our budget. I am a single mother on partial disability. But with the family I have, we do all right. We want for nothing. We have a home and food. Alot of others don't. And that is what I think kids should know. Believing is Santa is great. There's a little santa in all of us. Sorry for the long message. I will shut-up now. Take care. |
| Posted by: scottish2 29-Nov-2003, 05:57 AM |
| No need to shut up. I think more of us (Myself included) need to be more active like you are. I think if more of us were like this maybe it might bring us all a little closer to world peace. ON now I will shut up before I get Santa involved in politics LOL. (I lead the politics forum thats why last statement so it makes more sense to you.) |
| Posted by: Therasa 29-Nov-2003, 06:53 AM |
| Scottish2 Thanks, and you don't need to shut up...lol Santa won't be the last 'person' added to the political debate. I hear the Easter bunny is waiting in the hall.  |
| Posted by: scottish2 29-Nov-2003, 06:58 AM |
| well show him or her in have the Tooth Fairy join him or her as well |
| Posted by: Therasa 29-Nov-2003, 07:10 AM |
| And don't forget the Great Pumpkin..... |
| Posted by: barddas 29-Nov-2003, 07:53 AM | ||
THE GREAT PUMPKIN!!!!! YOU know about it too!!!!!????? Good grief, I'm not crazy sittin' in the pumpkin patch every year!!!!LOL!!!!! |
| Posted by: tartangal 29-Nov-2003, 08:15 AM | ||
Whats that all about, Barddas?  |
| Posted by: Therasa 29-Nov-2003, 08:15 AM |
| Oh no, you are not! I'm the one over in the corner. I know he'll show next year. I'll bring popcorn though. |
| Posted by: Aaediwen 29-Nov-2003, 11:44 AM |
| I can't vote on this. I literally believe in Santa Claus. Perhaps he's not a physical being, to be met in life. Yet he exists. He has a name in story and song, and he has a form in people's hearts and imaginations. If for no other reason than this, Santa Claus is as real as anyone else. If someone believes in something, if the name is still remembered, then they live on and exist. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people believe in Santa Claus. This makes him real in my book. |
| Posted by: Arianrhod 30-Nov-2003, 06:21 AM |
| To think, I was almost afriad to read this thread.. I myself ,am a walking Hallmark Card.... Kid's do need whimsy and fantasy ! life comes fast and hard to them .. in these times, perhaps faster than in others... I think we all are touched by the magic of the Season ! and passing Santa on , keeps that alive, along with Hope, and joy ,, and knowing that GOOD behaviour will be recognised .. I can see no harm in that I don't have kids myself. so perhaps my opinion is'nt as valid.. BUT if I did, I'd tell them there was a Santa,, and I'd get one of my Uncles to call the house, like my Mother did ..keep a Calender.. Hang stockings, make cookies for him , and leave carrots for the reindeer, just as we did as kids.. Those were great Holidays, and I treasure them ! One more thing ! it is a small window of time..... when you can say " be nice ! Santas watching !!" and see my hellion neices, stop torturing each other Ahhhhhhhhhh for that look on their faces, if nothing else ! I hope Santa lives in all your hearts forever ! This thread just made me feel GOOD ! In Service to the Dream, Paula |
| Posted by: Therasa 01-Dec-2003, 02:37 PM |
| Arianrhod- I totally agree with you. I can't understand why parents want to squash their kids dreams before they even begin. I don't think it's fair at all. Like I stated before. My kids know it is not a man coming down the chimney, but they feeling, acting and caring that all goes with it. They like the idea of being a 'santa' for other kids less fortunate. I was wondering- do or has anyone here ever filled those shoe boxes for the third worl countries at christmas? Or any other type of charity? We actually had my son Mathews' school do this. Morgans' school does the drop off box for food. Take care all |
| Posted by: Arianrhod 01-Dec-2003, 02:48 PM |
| Aw but see Therasa .. You ARE Santa You are the Spirt in your Children's Heart's ! that makes them want to .. be nice Give to others and know it FEELS good to GIVE ! That takes time and love.. I do not have children of my own.. but , I do know, they are not BORN that way ! There are so many ways to give all during the year.. I like the Shoeboxs for the Homes for the Elderly.. I have never seen anyone here doing them for overseas.. Everywhere I went today.. there were toy drives ! as I said, I am a walking Hallmark Card, but I found those wagons and boxes so touching ! We went to Wal Mart, and got a few things to add .. nothing huge, just what we could do .. And there are canned food drives all over the city.. what an easy way to give ! It will give you a case of the warm fuzzies, I promise ! In Service to the Dream, Paula |
| Posted by: Raven 01-Dec-2003, 02:59 PM |
| (spoken in my best church lady voice) Who could it be...who could it be. hmm lets seeee move the N to the last S.A.T.A.N???? Hmmm Just a funny funny skit. Maybe not the best way to break it to the kids though mikel |
| Posted by: maryellen 01-Dec-2003, 05:39 PM |
| Perhaps this would depend on how Santa and Christmas are presented in the family. Often, he is the representative of someone who gives presents. A commercialism ploy to buy more things. After seeing the news this weekend- a woman unconscious in the store and no one noticed- some people see it is about "taking." But fortuntately, it seems most of us here believe Santa is about "giving". woo hoo! |
| Posted by: Keltic 01-Dec-2003, 10:22 PM | ||
And fortunately, there are those of us who are willing to accept!! So, what did you get me? |
| Posted by: sjboren 02-Dec-2003, 02:47 AM |
| I enjoyed the idea of Santa as a child. It made it exciting and hard to sleep on Christmas Eve. After I got to thinking about it I remembered what it felt like to find out there was no Santa. Somehow I remember and it wasn't a very fun realization but I must have gotten over it. In answer to the question I think its ok to let your kids just "figure it out". |
| Posted by: Elspeth 02-Dec-2003, 10:00 AM | ||
She's not buying you anything because you've been bad. The presents are all for ME!!! You better hope there is a Santa 'cuz I'm not sharing. |
| Posted by: Aventar 02-Dec-2003, 10:21 AM |
| It seems to me that Santa is real. He may not be a breathing person, but Santa is indeed real. Santa is the spirit of the season....now just hold on all of you Christians who are starting to get your knickers in an uproar....Santa is the sprit of the season because this is the season of Peace and love...it does not just belong to Christians...it belongs to Muslims, Jews, Pagans....everyone. The realness of Santa is spirit...love...belief and magic. How innocent we are when we believe that there is a man in a red suit that comes every Christmas eve. How much have we all changed since Santa ceased to exist in our lives? Are we more cynical? Do we worship the all mighty money more than we experience the magic of belief? I for one would feel better if I never lost Santa, it is only a cruel person who never gives their child the gift of belief in something so good, and wonderful. Aventar |
| Posted by: Aventar 02-Dec-2003, 10:22 AM |
| It seems to me that Santa is real. He may not be a breathing person, but Santa is indeed real. Santa is the spirit of the season....now just hold on all of you Christians who are starting to get your knickers in an uproar....Santa is the sprit of the season because this is the season of Peace and love...it does not just belong to Christians...it belongs to Muslims, Jews, Pagans....everyone. The realness of Santa is spirit...love...belief and magic. How innocent we are when we believe that there is a man in a red suit that comes every Christmas eve. How much have we all changed since Santa ceased to exist in our lives? Are we more cynical? Do we worship the all mighty money more than we experience the magic of belief? I for one would feel better if I never lost Santa, it is only a cruel person who never gives their child the gift of belief in something so good, and wonderful. Aventar |
| Posted by: Raven 02-Dec-2003, 09:40 PM | ||
True, the Christmas holiday is overlaid on a much older Holiday that celebrates the winter solstice. I believe the oldest one that I found record of was the Bachanalia (please excuse the spelling ) which was a Greek holiday with the cheif god being the child god Baccus. I believe that the Babylonians had a similar holiday previous (maybe the Adultlonians also ) Regardless the holiday definitely predates the birth of Christ by at least hundreds of years.The evidence seems to indicate that Halloween would be a more appropriate time to celebrate the birth of Christ as it is more easily reconciled with the biblical acount of Christ's birth. The fact that Santa is a major part of the modern Christmas holiday should not be a suprise and actually seems very apropriate to me in light of serious study that I have done on this holiday. It's even oddly coincidental that statues of Saturn bear a strong resemblance to the modern day Santa figure ( may be Santa is actually a corruption of Saturn )It will all be in my report Mikel |
| Posted by: Therasa 03-Dec-2003, 03:30 PM |
| I agree that christmas is now just another reason to spend money you don't have, on toys that will either be broken in a day, or forgotten in two. So, both sons and I have started to make, rather than buy, presents. I do alot of cross stitch, so I make pictures for people. Together the boys and I this year, are making magnets from salt dough. We bought some unfinished wood items this year. Mirrors, plaques, tree ornaments, and so on. We will paint them with something special for each person. When we buy things, we will buy what that person wouldn't buy for themselves. I'm quite a tool though, I buy all the pets something. Huge bones for the dogs, and catnip for the cats. Although Murphy (eldest dog) loves the catnip. He steals it and runs. LOL I think people just need to take their time and look around them. Not try and out do the next parent or family in what they buy. That gets old real fast. People now adays, want the homemade things. It's more special, you took the time and effort to make something just for them. It's original. I love that more. Take care |
| Posted by: oldraven 03-Dec-2003, 03:43 PM |
| Good Lord Aventar. Please open your mind. Not all Christians are as closed minded as the world might think. I grew up in the church, and have always had the nativity out front, and Santa on the wall inside, and stockings full on Christmas morning. The last Christmas play I went to in Church had Santa there as well. And I said the same thing you did earlier on in this thread. Santa IS the incarnation of the Christmas spirit. |
| Posted by: maryellen 03-Dec-2003, 03:44 PM |
| True, but Saturn is the god of agriculture -- nothing much to do with Christmas. The time of Jesus' birth would have to be a warm time of year - the shepherds were outside watching their flock. In the cold weather months, they would have been inside a stable. |
| Posted by: Raven 03-Dec-2003, 09:26 PM | ||
Saturn has more to do with Christmas than you might suppose. Actually the Romans celebrated the Saturnalia at about the time that we presently celebrate Christmas. (they actually had the Feast of Sol Invicta on the 25th) This is what the Roman culture changed the Bachanalia from the Greeks to. Both of these holidays predate the present day Christmas holiday. Exactly my point about the biblical account of the birth of Jesus it would have been at a warmer time than winter and is more likely to have occured in October or possibly even early November as Shepards still might have had their flocks in the open field. My take is that Christmas is actually very true to it's real origins as a study of both the Saturnalia and the Bachanalia will reveal to anyone who cares to study them. I am there fore not suprised that modern day Christmas is as commercial as it is. http://www.circlesanctuary.org/pholidays/SaturnaliaInfo.html Another interesting link on Santa pertaining to Saturn http://www.circlesanctuary.org/pholidays/SolsticeArticle.html (speaking again in my best church lady voice) notice Saturn in you put the N after the A hmmm who could it be S.A.N.T.U.R (possibly Santa spoken with a Boston accent )Peace Mikel |