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Posted by: CelticRadio 13-Dec-2008, 07:44 PM

These are uncertain times we are living in. In fact, they are historic times. As I read the news on the latest financial crisis, bank failure, or bankruptcy it occurs to me that no one, except the depression era folks, have lived through such an uncertain time period as we are today.

Massive layoffs are occurring across our country. Wall Street is swinging widely from plus to minus. Oil prices have dropped from a high of $147 a barrel to $40 a barrel.

12 million Americans own more on their mortgages then their homes are valued at! And home prices are expected to keep falling until 2010!

We are in massive correction to our economies and lifestyles. And if you are like most people, you probably could not survive very long without your paycheck!

I would like to start this thread to discuss ways to deal with the current economic crisis and what you and families can do to prepare. I know this might sound kinda crazy, but have you thought about stocking up on can foods in your house? Maybe installing a Wood burning stove, cutting back on your weekly or monthly expenses. Bringing a bag lunch to work instead of buying. Maybe starting a small part-time business?

These are all topics up for discussion. If we expand this topic into its own forum, we could even discuss bankruptcy laws, credit cards, mortgages, unemployment, SSDI and more.

More than ever, I am very convinced that this financial crisis could be the start of the Great Depression II. Things are currently in play that just can not be stopped and who survives depends alot on preparation and anticipation.

If you are interested in such a forum, let us know. And also what you think about the current economic crisis, where you think it is heading and how you are preparing.

Posted by: Patch 13-Dec-2008, 08:42 PM

I could not agree more with your assessment. I still see people who are in denial and do not want to consider lifestyle changes.

I am looking at raising rabbits, chickens and goats. I am lobbying to get restrictions on that eased inside the city limits. ( I have a place for them outside of town.) I have a raised garden now and plan to increase it next year. I have a multi fuel pellet/corn/cherry pit stove and a freezer/pantry full of food. I am buying silver 1 oz bars as a buffer should inflation run rampant. My jewelry is all in the bank in a safety deposit box. I am testing to see what medication I can live without and stock piling meds that I can. My auto is nondescript and blends in. I do not dress up so that I can avoid attracting attention.

Crime is my worst concern. friends and family have developed an alarm system that does not rely on ADT or others. I have a dog that is "protective" and alarms that will alert me if someone attempts to gain entry. I have the means to protect myself at home and away. I fear there may be restrictions placed on self defense in the next 4 years but hope I am wrong.

I just bought a "twisted" cane/walking stick which can double as a Shillelagh.

If anyone has other ideas, I am open to suggestions.

Slàinte,

Patch

Posted by: InRi 14-Dec-2008, 09:05 AM

Well, what I have to say about...
...I am someone you could call "the man on the street". I have to work hard and a long time for relativ less money. I have to pay a lot of money for a new-builded house and I am very happy if after the money doesn't remain a lot of month...
These are the facts - in good times and also in crisis times.
The good matter is: I have a (fulltime) job.
In my opinion are two things most important for me:

First: to hope the people send out parcels enough so that I can do my job anymore.
Secound: to keep well and fit so that I don't lose the job.

In my case I couldn't change my livestyle, because the only thing I already do is to work for survive... I can't affort such "luxurious" things as long vacations (the last was a two weeks trip to Sweden in 2002) or a new car (I use currently a almost 10 years old car that has done already 185.000 km - r.a. 111.000 miles). Unfortunately the effects of crisis hit the people from humble homes first.
I can repeat only: The most important thing is for me, don't lose the current job and if that happens to find a new job very fast...

QUOTE (CelticRadio)

Maybe starting a small part-time business?

...sorry but I work currently till 14 hours per day in one job...any questions your honor?

QUOTE (CelticRadio)

In fact, they are historic times.

Thank you very much, but I'd like to renounce this kind of historic times.

Sorry Paul, please don't misunderstand me. I don't want to affront you. Maybe it seems so - but I quoted because these lunged at me very intensive.

Regards from Austria

Ingo

Posted by: Lady-of-Avalon 14-Dec-2008, 10:15 AM

QUOTE (CelticRadio @ 13-Dec-2008, 08:44 PM)

Hi Paul,

Again I do understand you're meaning but let's not panic in this situation that even though these are tough times for a lot of people,but we practically lived them in the 80's here...

I for one lost my job 2 months ago on the pretext that the company had to cut down on payrolls...(a company run by the US I might add) no offense...and here we are suffering the consequences of this deflation in the US while what we hear on TV this morning is that of a baseball player who will be paid over 160 millions of dollars over a period of 7 years to hit a freaking ball in a stadium packed with people that "supposedly" live a "major economic crisis"....now where is the logic in this....

You write about what can people do to prepare to face an eventual Great Depression...well again no offense but Americans (no offense intended) should start by getting their priority straight by "boycotting" these excess by not encouring sports...don't get me wrong...I have nothing against sports but it has taken to a stage of ridiculously appaling proportion of abuse in my eyes by paying men for games these huge amount of money that no human being worth that much.

When I say "boycotting" is not going to the games and buying beer that cost trice the amount worth, buying hot dogs and not to mention "tickets" that cost a bundle.

I lost my job while the company has still a budget to buy "season hockey tickets" that cost over 10K a year just to give out to customers as gifts....not to mention the "season tickets for playoff"... now what do I do to prepare for depression....I think this question should be addressed to corporations and governments which by the way is all that they want...what is the best way to put an economy back on it's feet again...call a recession and voilà!!!

As for what I do here personally...well let's see...first I don't go to sports event to encourage greedy professionnals players/athletes and their managers,I don't own gadgets (cell phone and such) I don't change my car every 2 years just to flahs around, we have our own garden, do my own compost, recycle.

No offense intended to nobody.Just my two pence to the question...

LOA

Posted by: Aaediwen 14-Dec-2008, 11:33 AM

I also agree, although I focus on corporate board members getting multi-million dollar salaries. Cut that in half would alone save companies a crap load of money and the execs would still be making millions per year.

As for what I'm doing, I'm trying to get bills paid off as much as I can, and putting money in to stocks while the prices are down. With starting while so low, means that while it's low should be about the same returns as one might normally expect. Then when things start picking back up, just ride the wave.

Posted by: Patch 14-Dec-2008, 11:47 AM

As you suggest, I do not attend sporting events and I further boycott any business that, in my opinion, engages in unfair pricing. It has become a long list. I have yet to figure out how to deal with the food manufacturing industry as the price gouging is so wide spread. I will be raising most of my food by mid summer next year.

We here in America need to listen to the economists, not the Government, and plan. Most have their heads in the sand and do not want to hear bad news. A pharmacist I know says he will not open his 401k statements until this is over as it is depressing. When he does there may be little left. There is still time for financial planning. NO interest Treasury Certificates "may" be better choice than loosing 5 to 10% every month or quarter. It would be the equivalent of burying it in the flower bed, but maybe safer.

It makes me sad and angry to hear the news and find how far back this goes. My Father made his economic prediction in 1995 prediction based on Ragan (where it all started subtly), Bush 1 and Clinton. When you look at the policy change that took place when Volkert was replaced by Greenspan, "Trickle Down Economics" may have nothing but been a lie. I am just beginning to research that. Not that it will help now but I want my kids and grand kids to understand it!

The Bernard L. Maddof ponzi scam shows the mentality here and Govt still trusts industry leaders to get us out of this. One has to wonder what color the sky is in Washington DC. There have been many billions lost in this scam and some pension funds will turn their little feet to the sky because if it. If there is one, there are almost certainly more! Where there is greed, these things happen.

If the American public does not begin to prepare soon and this includes boycotting the worst offenders in industry, they will be at the "tender" mercies of the Govt. God forbid!! Wait too long and it will be food pantries, soup kitchens and homeless shelters. I am betting the soup will bear no resemblance to the kind Mom made.

As an American, I realize we are most probably the instigator, but others jumped in too. I hope and pray that there is a soft bottom under it all. And speaking of "pray", it is amazing the number of people now attending church. The last few weeks, they have been standing in the enclosed entrance as the seating is full. The weekly collection has increased substantially too. I have only seen these attendance levels at Easter and Christmas Masses! Obviously some are beginning to "think".

Slàinte,

Patch

Posted by: CelticRadio 14-Dec-2008, 01:14 PM

Some great comments here and no offense taken by me! A small garden or farm is a great idea. I like that one, except in cold weather climates that may not be practical in the winter - unless you had a greenhouse or indoor garden.

My post was written with great thought as not to alarm people. I would not want to be an alarmist nor to scare people.

From a financial and economic perspective, the prospective of the Great Depression II has increased substantially within the last 30 days. I am not saying it is going to happen, but I am saying that the "Perfect Economic Storm" is building and conditions are right for "Deflation" and further contraction of our economies.

People might think deflation is a good thing. And while it is generally good for a short period of time, once your salary starts reducing then it becomes another story. And yes, run away deflation will result in companies reducing our paychecks to keep in line with costs.

The last time that happened was during the Great Depression.

For background information and the latest news on Deflation, check Google:

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&q=deflation

Posted by: Patch 14-Dec-2008, 03:46 PM

Precaution can do nothing but help. Canning, freezing and drying can extend a summer harvest into a year round supply. In cities, roof top and flower bed gardens produce surprising quantities. Small animals are another matter. Beans and rice however form a "complete" protein. My son has two and a half acres with some animals. Others may have friends who can raise protein. Working together is important in dealing with economic down turns and it usually gives everyone a good feeling. All of my children have gardens on their property. I can expand mine to 50' by 70' easily. From my 5 by 25 raised garden I have shared tomato's, green beans and cucumbers and some years cabbages for a long time. Investing wisely now is not a bad idea though I do not know what is a wise investment. Caution, research and or a good counselor would be a must I believe. alcohol usually does well in times of financial crisis. Brewers, distillers and small neighborhood bars tend to weather economic storms. A small family business could be good and again, research is the key.

If you are or become unemployed, think about retraining in a field likely to weather the down turn.

I know a couple that bought silver in the 60's during a recession and have held it to this day.

Should this be only a speed bump, you will be poised to reap benefits from the recovery.

This is not about "panic." In panic, there is confusion and decisions are not always sound. This IS about fore thought and planning to the best of ones ability. Not every idea is right for everyone. Some ideas are better for municipal areas than rural settings and vice-versa. We are educated people and have the ability to make sound decisions.

Slàinte,

Patch

Posted by: Patch 14-Dec-2008, 04:39 PM

QUOTE (CelticRadio @ 14-Dec-2008, 03:14 PM)

People might think deflation is a good thing. And while it is generally good for a short period of time, once your salary starts reducing then it becomes another story. And yes, run away deflation will result in companies reducing our paychecks to keep in line with costs.

The last time that happened was during the Great Depression.

This is an excellent source of information on deflation. The Federal reserve is about out of wiggle room on interest rate cuts but they have another tool at their disposal. They control the money supply. It is not as healthy and harder to balance but "creating" a larger supply of money can create inflation.

The book by G. Edward Griffin titled "The Creature From Jekyl Island" is still available at some book stores and on Amazon. It is the story of the founding of the Federal Reserve and though rather dry at some points, it is an interesting read. I would recommend it to anyone who is interested in how our financial and monetary system is likely to react. I have bought and loaned 4 copies and presently have none.

I remember Dad telling of his experiences with declining income. The Scot side were all farmers and the family did butchering on peoples farms for income. They got 75 cents and the hide for a beef and 50 cents for hogs skinned and 75 cents "scraped". Sheep and goats were a quarter. I helped him from 1949 till 1954 and the demand died out. Dad sold life insurance and a 500 dollar policy netted him a commission of 25 cents with a smaller annual renewal commission. If he took the commission in stock, he got 50 cents worth of stock. I have most of his old ledgers from 1930 through 1945 with a few missing. The prices for farm commodities was interesting. We (my brothers/sisters and I) have old newspapers he saved showing prices in the early 30's. One in particular was an article on the completion of the new steps on the Post Office building. The picture also portrayed the window of the town grocery store next door. The prices on the window in white wash paint indicated eggs were 3 cents a dozen, milk 4 cents a gallon, bread 4 cents a loaf, (most baked their own) ground beef 5 cents a pound, 3 pounds for 12 cents and flour was 3 cents a pound. Dad said most farmers took 100 lb of wheat to the feed mill and had it ground for a half cent a pound. As a kid I could not understand the problem. Dad explained that people had been making 15 to 25 dollars a week and in the early 30's they were lucky to make 65 cents to a dollar a day and most jobs were "day" jobs.

One could probably search and find more specific information on the net.

As you said at the start, we are living history.

Slàinte,

Patch

Posted by: deadeye08 14-Dec-2008, 05:27 PM

You know I agree times are tough I think a lot of people got too caught up in these financial risks but that is what they are risks. I don't know how many lenders and real estate agents were saying that this isn't a bubble but it will keep going up then flat line and go up. WRONG! I told them that to their faces and they thought I was stupid.

I own 3 companies, I run one of them full time. I think times are tough and I think bailout are mistakes. when I was young I ran up 10K in credit card debt and my parents bailed me out then I ran up 20k in debt one more time they bailed me out it wasn't until the 3rd time at 40k I put a stop to the bailing out... I wouldn't ask and had to pay it off myself or file bankruptcy (this was before my businesses). The point is I didn't learn from my mistakes I just made them again and worse bailouts can work but I would think that as a last resort.

Going back to the company I own... I am in the luxury area of products. Home Automation, lighting Control, Home Cinemas and I am still busy (by the grace of God) but I am also being very smart with my money. Not spending Superfluously, cutting back on company expenditures and even cutting my own personal salary.

I give that advice to everyone who asks me how to deal with these times. It could last 6 months, a year, 3 years 5 years, who knows but cutting the fat and being aware of where every dime you have is whether business or personal is key to having control over your finances.

As far as real estate goes the people that bought multiple properties using Interest only and Adjustable rates were foolish to begin with. I do understand that those that were not trying to make a buck and were just trying to give there family a home have lost a lot... I have seen it and it hurts to see friends and family lose a house and I feel for them.

I worked hard to get where I am and I don't have a lot but I own a house now and I help those I can. I think the government is making huge mistakes with all the bailouts and I am quite honestly concerned about the government buying controlling interest in banks, that is a flag raiser.

If you are a business owner or employee just read above about spending and watching your money because: "until it leaves your pocket, it is your money"

Posted by: Nova Scotian 16-Dec-2008, 05:37 PM

Before these hard times. The Mrs. and me started a corse by Dave Ramsey. All I can say is I wish started 5 years ago. But following his advice was one of the smartest things we ever did.

Posted by: Jillian 18-Dec-2008, 06:15 AM

This economy has done one thing...it has gotten our attention. We are all becoming more critical of the gluttonous behavior of people all over the world - not just America. Professional athletes and CEO's are ridiculously paid, and quite frankly, no one is worth that much money. The bloated fortunes have certainly led to living a life of extreme leisure - which often leads to partying or pleasure-seeking. We've become a frivolous people and we now must shift our thinking to what we need, not necessarily what we want.

In terms of preparation, I have begun to consider how much to stock up on canned goods. How often do we rotate them? What is the best way to stock up on water? Is it buying those large water cooler jugs? How long does it stay preserved? What should I do w/the money I have? Should some be hidden in a hole in the ground, or won't it matter because the dollar will have no value? Should I really invest in gold? I've considered buying a gun.

I'm not sure of the answers, but I do think things will get much worse.

Jillian

Posted by: Patch 18-Dec-2008, 08:08 AM

I looked for expiration dates on canned goods but have been told, if the can is not rusted, leaking or the ends rounded out, the contents are good. I got an indelible marker and dated the cans. Starch items can get bugs in the contents. No time frame seems to be determined for that to happen. I have three year old Mac. and Cheese which is OK but I am eating it (it isn't my favorite) so that I can rotate. A quality "seal-a-meal will vacuum package food and make frozen and dry packaged foods last much longer. My plan is to rotate every 12 to 18 months. If I remember correctly the Mormon religion advocates keeping a two or three year supply of food on hand. If I am not correct on the time, please let me know.

Water poses another problem. A "clean" 55 gal. plastic food quality barrel or sealable 5 gal plastic buckets with lids would work well. they must have had no dangerous chemicals in them in the past. A supply of Chlorine bleach would be helpful to insure it's purity. I am considering ways to catch rain water for cleaning and to prevent it from freezing in the winter.

Money that is buried in the ground could "disappear" should anyone have an idea that it is there. Gold will preserve the value of large amounts of money (because of its value) where silver will be more spendable as it is cheaper. Both will act as investments too.

With firearms: I recommend that everyone in the household have safety training and if old enough training in the use of firearms if one is to be kept in the home. Plenty of ammunition may be as important as firearms as that may be the first attempt to "control" firearms. There are other non lethal methods of self defense that family members can learn too. If you have children, they rely on you to provide for their safety. That is a major responsibility. Home security systems can be expensive but there are less expensive options at Radio Shack and similar outlets. Most criminals avoid light (motion lights) and loud warning alarms. A small gun safe or regular safe hidden in a closet will offer protection for your valuables since if your bank were to close (not likely because of losses, but due to public panic,) you will not be able to access your safe deposit box. That may be where your gold, silver and/or other necessities are located.

Those in urban areas will need to plan more than those in small communities and rural areas.

Probably the most important thing I can stress is: Do nothing to attract attention to yourself. Store the expensive jewelry and accessories. If you drive a Cadillac or Lincoln, buy a used Chevy or Ford and park the high dollar car. Try to dress to blend in. Try to project confidence as some people just look vulnerable. Go places in groups where possible as there is safety in numbers.

Common sense rules, just think about what you plan to do.

By thinking of safety and security, you will develop even more ideas.

Slàinte,

Patch

Posted by: deadeye08 23-Dec-2008, 12:32 AM

I am glad I found this site there are a lot of like minded people here.

Just a note on survival...

If you have more weapons then food you are not a survivalist. (I'm sure thats up for discussion)

Make sure you have your food, equipment, and weapons in a place you can get to easy and have a plan that you and your family know and plan out different situations, earthquake, tornado, civil upset.

Make a checklist that is out in the open where you store most of your materials.

Know where to meet up in an event where you have to abandon your home. Dont take more then you can carry be smart about you loadout.

Remember if you have canned food you need something to cook it with.

MRE's are quick and easy but have a shorter shelf life then dehydrated and canned foods.

I'm sure I could post more but that might need to go to a special interest forum.

Posted by: Lady-of-Avalon 23-Dec-2008, 06:21 AM

QUOTE (Patch @ 18-Dec-2008, 09:08 AM)

We are all intitle to our opinion in life and I respect that...but isn't it pushing the thing a bit too far in that kind of statement that is to me bordering on "paranoia"??

My mother and father and grandparents lived through the Great Depression in the 30's and 40's and they "survived" it even with big families to feed on both sides...they "survived" it by sacrifice and lived on simple things...not with over indulgence like people are use to today...and this is why people are afraid of what is going on...I think that it is because they are afraid of loosing their lifestyle which is so precious to some that to have to "reduce" is out of the question...

As for a statement like what I read here...the only thing that comes to mind is that if it's not being "alarmist" I don't know what is.For I simply don't understand what stocking up with firearms has anything to do with this discussion.This is no bloody nuclear war...

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous.

LOA

Posted by: flora 23-Dec-2008, 07:49 AM

I think it is always a good idea to think about what might happen and plan. My husband always looks at the worse case scenario and I always have the everything will turn out alright attitude. When you take a defensive driving course or self defense, they teach you to think about what the other person might do. Changing my lifestyle does not frighten me at all. But what others might do does. If people are so selfcentered about their own needs that they would run over a sales clerk to get into a store for a sale, what would they do if they or their family didn't have any food or medicine? It is sad to say but I am afraid of the morals of today's majority.

Flora

Posted by: Patch 23-Dec-2008, 08:58 AM

What we face today has no comparison to the crash of "29" according to the Economics Professor who wrote the definitive history of that financial event. (now retired and in her very alert 90's)

My parents and grandparents survived the crash of "29" and my grandparents survived two others, one as children.

The problem today, we are an urban civilization. In 29 most people lived on farms. They already lived financial conservative lifestyles. Most did not invest in the stock market. We had a little over a third of the population in 29 that we have today. The big factor today is honesty. A recent survey of students widely published in the Mid West and maybe Notionally indicated that nearly a third have stolen and cheated. That is JUST those who admitted it. I am not saying that only students are the problem. Adults teach them. Our crime rates are going out of sight. The crimes used to be nearly all "driving while impaired" and "domestic violence" both serious crimes. Now theft, (armed and by threat) robbery and home invasion is taking the lead. Things have not gotten really bad at this time and I hope they do not. Preparation will either mean that I eat and help my children do the same or if it does not get really bad, I will not have to go to the grocery for a long time. That is what families did in 29. The Mormons , according to a Mormon co-worker, have had a religious requirement to maintain a two or three year supply of food at all times for years. Some years ago I sold him a set of shoe makers lasts that I bought at an auction as he was going to begin making shoes for he and his wife. All that in good times.

I am not paranoid. I am NOT happy with the financial situation but I am as calm, watchfull and focused as I have ever been in my life. I am helping my children maintain that state of mind too "so far."

Slàinte,

Patch

Posted by: MacFive 24-Jan-2009, 10:24 AM

Keep stocking up on can goods and food, the crisis is about to get a whole lot worse.

Britian and Europe appear to be heading into an even worse encomic crisis that the U.S. Look for a European nation to default on all of the debt causing further shockwaves.

Not so much a worry in the developed nations, but food supplies are going to dwindle and disease will be on the rise in third world countries. With the major western nations not able to donate or support these countries.

At some point people will be sick of the unemployment and start looking for a radical change in their leadership. I just hope we are not destined to repeat all of our histories.

Deflation is a real concern because our debt does not delfate.

And finally, everyone that has even a little extra money should be looking at penny stocks. Yes, now is the time to pickup a few hundred shares here and there on the sub dollar stocks. In the 70s walmart's stock was .40 a share. Even looking at the great depression some stocks rebounded by 10,000% in 10-15 years. If you have a little to invest (rather than spending it on a scratch ticket) do your homework and look what you think is a good deal. For only $40 you can pick up a .40 share stock and get 100 shares, but make sure it is a company that is projected to not go bankrupt!

Posted by: Shadows 24-Jan-2009, 12:29 PM

I have become a number in this economic down turn... I became unemployed on Dec 31.

Up until that day I had been guaranteed the safety of my job.

Guess what they lied!
I live in rural PA and jobs are almost non-existent.
We have a little money to tide us over for about a month or 2, my IRA has lost over 57%, it is now below what I invested. To take it out now would not be prudent.

I hope you all are in better shape then me!

I suggest putting away as much money as you can... no one's job is secure!

Posted by: Patch 24-Jan-2009, 01:59 PM

Shadows:

I am sorry to hear that and I wish you well. Where I live it is a fortunate day if there are two job listings under help wanted. Those are usually medical. Initially job loss is a shock. I recommend sitting down and discussing the situation. Think "outside the box." There is still money available for small business start up's through the federal govt. Hobbies and outside interests can become income sources. If your training and job experiences lends it's self to "consulting" there is considerable money to be made there. Look for a need in your community and find a way to fill it. History has shown that dealing in luxuries is usually more profitable that dealing in necessities. Why that is, I do not know.

I know a lady who is under employed and started a business called "Rent-A-Nag". Between that and her part time job she makes about 30% more than she did before she was laid off. For a fee, she will "remember" birth days, anniversaries, appointments, important tasks and does "wake up calls" for the subscriber. Then she notifies them at the appropriate time.

Hang in there and be creative!

Slàinte,

Patch

P. S. They are starting to hire for the Census.

Posted by: flora 24-Jan-2009, 02:12 PM

A long time ago my husband used to be in the fruit harvesting business. Well, the big freeze came and pretty much destroyed all the groves in this area. He was laid off. He went and bought a chain saw and made more money than previously clearing the trees! Shadow I am sorry for this setback, but just remember it is only a setback. Keep your chin up!

Flora

Posted by: englishmix 06-Feb-2009, 09:47 PM

On the Corries site in Facebook, a friend introduced me to a Corries song that could be our anthem in such times as this:

Lyrics to A Man's A Man For A' That :

Is there for honest Poverty
That hings his head, an' a' that;
The coward slave-we pass him by,
We dare be poor for a' that!
For a' that, an' a' that.
Our toils obscure an' a' that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The Man's the gowd for a' that.

What though on hamely fare we dine,
Wear hoddin grey, an' a that;
Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine;
A Man's a Man for a' that:
For a' that, and a' that,
Their tinsel show, an' a' that;
The honest man, tho' e'er sae poor,
Is king o' men for a' that.

Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord,
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a coof for a' that:
For a' that, an' a' that,
His ribband, star, an' a' that:
The man o' independent mind
He looks an' laughs at a' that.

A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that;
But an honest man's abon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.
Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' that.

Posted by: gallesjrrt 09-Feb-2009, 11:03 AM

Englishmix - thanks for posting that! Old Robbie Burns surely had a way wi' his tongue didn'a he!

OK, so much for my faux brogue. These are hard times and we do need to stick together and help one another as we can. I heard something on MSNBC today that seems to me to be right on. So many of us had pinned so many of our hopes on things changing when Barack Obama was inaugurated that he'd almost have to be super-human to live up to our expectations. The problem is that he doesn't work in a vacuum ... no matter how high his intentions, he still has to work with other flawed humans (namely Democrats AND Republicans), and that aggravation will take a long time to subside.

In the meantime, we have our fellow members here to encourage, sympathize and support us!

Posted by: flora 10-Feb-2009, 06:14 PM

There is good news. In a recent magazine article it was reported that a l % rise in unemployment leads to about 14,000 fewer deaths a year. That's alot!!!! With more time and less money, people eat healthier, smoke less, and exercise more.

Flora

Posted by: Patch 11-Feb-2009, 09:30 AM

That is an interesting bit of information. Maybe every cloud does have a silver lining.

Slàinte,

Patch

Posted by: Shadows 11-Feb-2009, 10:35 AM

Yea but the suicide and murder rates go up!

No I am not contemplating either of those options, just making an observation!

Posted by: Patch 11-Feb-2009, 10:47 AM

QUOTE (Shadows @ 11-Feb-2009, 12:35 PM)

Yea but the suicide and murder rates go up!

No I am not contemplating either of those options, just making an observation!

Unfortunately that too is happening. It is all about how each of us approaches the situation. We can find ways to turn it into a positive thing or we can dwell in despair.

Slàinte,

Patch

Posted by: flora 15-Feb-2009, 08:27 AM

My husband and I spent time together in town yesterday. There was alot of people shopping. I don't know if it was a combination of a beautiful day and Valentines or whether people are starting to spend. The restaurants in our area always seem to be doing very well.
Quite a few foreclosures listed along with many houses for sale or rent (the highest I have seen). The marina was packed with people putting boats in but more than usual were fishing off the docks.
The grocery store in our area says they did not make their quota. I think we have a widening gap between the poor and rich.

Flora

Posted by: Patch 16-Feb-2009, 04:18 PM

http://netscape.compuserve.com/news/story.jsp?floc=MM-pnews&sc=1110&idq=/ff/story/0001/20090216/1631567627.htm

The state of Kansas has suspended income tax refunds and may miss payroll!

The link above explains it all.

Slàinte,

Patch

Posted by: stoirmeil 16-Feb-2009, 05:31 PM

"The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The Man's the gowd for a' that. "

Among the truest words ever written . . . but you have to allow a man the opportunity to spend the gold of his talent and make his contribution. There is nothing so infuriating as the sight of skilled, ready and willing hands that the system is too bolloxed up to put to their purpose and reward for their worth.

When I was a young girl, I used to wonder how people could starve when there was so much food in the world, a lot of it wasted outright, and why could it not be simply sent where the hungry people are? Still naive -- as I wonder why, when there is so much work to do and often so little time to get it done before the consequences get too large to handle, can the work not be connected with the hands and the brains, and the fair living wage be given, no more nor less in all dignity, in return?

Grow up, stoirmeil girl . . .

Posted by: Shadows 16-Feb-2009, 06:04 PM

QUOTE (Patch @ 16-Feb-2009, 05:18 PM)

Sorry Patch thatlink takes me to a Compuserve login screen, is there a dirrect link that does not go through Compuserve?

Posted by: Patch 16-Feb-2009, 07:53 PM

The human race has been squeezed through various bottle necks at times in our history. Some severe and many not so. I suspect we regrouped and continued on in each instance and we will again. This should not be as drastic as some we have been through. We may well be the better for it.

Slàinte,

Patch

Posted by: Patch 16-Feb-2009, 08:06 PM

This is from a Kansas paper. The Netscape news was replaced by a Loreal loss story.

Kan. suspends income tax refunds, may miss payroll
Comments (0)
By JOHN HANNA
Associated Press Writer

* Visit The Eagle’s Wichitopekington blog to read more about the various stances on the budget situation.

TOPEKA, Kan. - Kansas has suspended income tax refunds and may not be able to pay employees on time, the state's budget director said Monday.

The state doesn't have enough money in its main bank account to pay its bills, prompting Democratic Gov. Kathleen Sebelius to suggest transferring $225 million from other accounts throughout state government. But the move required approval from legislative leaders, and the GOP refused Monday.

Budget Director Duane Goossen said that without the money, he's not sure the state can meet its payroll. State employees are due to be paid again Friday.

Goossen said the state stopped processing income tax refunds last week.

GOP leaders are hoping to pressure Sebelius into signing a bill making $326 million in adjustments to the budget for the fiscal year that ends June 30.

Legislators approved that bill last week, but it has not reached her desk.

Goossen said the state might also have to delay payments to public schools and to doctors who provide care to Kansans under the Medicaid program.

The state has transferred funds before when it has been short of cash in its main bank account. Most recently, the state issued the special certificates required in July and December for transfers totaling $550 million.

Each certificate requires the approval of the State Finance Council, which consists of the governor and eight top legislative leaders.

The council was scheduled to meet at 1 p.m. Monday, but Goossen said Sebelius canceled the meeting because Republican leaders told her they would not authorize the internal borrowing.

Some Republicans question whether such borrowing would be legal. When the state issues a certificate, it must promise that the money can be paid back by the end of the fiscal year. But the state already is projected to have a deficit in the current budget.

The legislation approved last week is designed to fix that.

Goossen said Republicans told Sebelius they want her to sign that bill first. Senate Minority Leader Anthony Hensley, D-Topeka, called the tactic "blackmail."

Republican leaders planned a news conference to discuss what happened.

Posted by: Dogshirt 16-Feb-2009, 09:00 PM

QUOTE

And perhaps the generation of "Everyone is a winner" will come out of it having learned to work! I am afraid that an entire generation is TOTALLY unequipped mentally to deal with this reallity.

Posted by: Patch 16-Feb-2009, 09:23 PM

QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 16-Feb-2009, 11:00 PM)

And perhaps the generation of "Everyone is a winner" will come out of it having learned to work! I am afraid that an entire generation is TOTALLY unequipped mentally to deal with this reallity.

That is what concerns me. What will the "totally unequipped" do. I am not ready and I have been adjusting for 4 years. 6 or 8 would have been better. I am buying some goats now to keep at my son's house.

I know a Mormon family who will go quite a while before they feel any discomfort. They have three years plus of food stored. Raise most of their food and some medicinal herbs. They have collected silver coins for over forty years and can even make their own shoes. That is being prepared.

Slàinte,

Patch