 "Being" Irish Today |
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j Padraig moore  |
Posted: 18-Mar-2008, 10:15 AM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 1,098
Joined: 23-Apr-2004
Zodiac: Birch
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Maybe it's just me, but recently I have gotten the impression that Irish natives: those still living there or are expatriates, have a bit of impatience with us of Irish-heritage. I have read some comments and articles from the native-born, expressing a certain bit of frustration with us, claiming that we have this "romantic" sense of being Irish. Last week the New York Times had an article by Timothy Egan, regarding the Irish in Butte, Montana. Some of the comments from native-born Irish regarding "us" and our attitudes towards being Irish, were kind of disturbing.
For myself, I have always been extremely proud to be of Irish descent. My great grandfather came from Galway. My wife's grandfather (though she never knew him, being that he passed many decades ago) was an immigrant. So when I get the sense that the native-born give us a sneer and a snide remark, whether online or in person, kind of hurts, you know?
Am I alone in this? Is there a bit of blowback against us "starry-eyed Irish romantics"?
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| oldraven |
Posted: 19-Mar-2008, 10:36 AM
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The Protector of the Unknown
Group: Scotland
Posts: 3,316
Joined: 20-Oct-2003
Zodiac: Hazel
Realm: Guysborough Co., Nova Scotia
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This is my take on it. When I moved out west, at first it was all fun. Everything was new, and it was my first time in a big city. But that didn't last long. As time wore on, I got more and more homesick. And then nostalgic. No doubt the more I thought about home, the greener the fields seemed. Brooks were purer, rivers higher, and lakes bluer. And the people were so starkly contrasted that you would get this image in your head that everyone in my home province was a host or hostess, always with a pot on and always waiting to hear what you've been up to.
I bet the feeling was the same for so many immigrants, and as they recalled their life at 'home' to their kids and grand-kids, you can bet they got the buttered up version. The obsession with the culture with no personal modern experience of it would lend to an ideal Ireland/Scotland/England/etc. of your own creation. I know that in my home region, the Isles are celebrated for their vibrant tradition, not their morbidly boring modernness.
And I'm more than positive the people of the old world have some views of our cultures that are, to say the least, inaccurate.
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Caw "I am a Canadian by birth, but I am a Highlander by blood and feel under an obligation to do all I can for the sake of the Highlanders and their literature.... I have never yet spoken a word of English to any of my children. They can speak as much English as they like to others, but when they talk to me they have to talk in Gaelic." -Alexander Maclean Sinclair of Goshen (protector of Gaelic Culture) We need more Stan Rogers. jams |
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| AShruleEgan |
Posted: 19-Mar-2008, 08:25 PM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: Ireland
Posts: 2,131
Joined: 19-Jun-2003
Zodiac: Rowan
Realm: Winston-Salem, North Carolina
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In my two trips to Ireland, I never received any kind of attitude towards me, as an American-Irish. I received hardy handshakes, huge smiles and the warmest welcomes. And that's from the moment I landed at Shannon and speaking with the Immigration Officer, who offered me my first of many, "A Yank has come home", to the day trips to little towns and asking directions. The Ireland you describe in that article, is not an Ireland that I have experienced at all.
When Aaediwen reads this thread, I'm sure he will back everything I have said. We have taken separate trips to the same areas of Ireland and the Irish are just wonderful to meet and they tend to have a love for Americans. Or maybe it's just a natural bonding.
I would have to say, that article was meant to stir the pot a bit.
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| scotborn |
Posted: 20-Mar-2008, 01:57 PM
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Servant
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 46
Joined: 01-Mar-2008
Zodiac: Rowan
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I can understand the feeling of native irish ho get pissed of with americans, australians, canadians etc claiming to be irish. the fact is that the irish do not consider themirish just because of their ancestors.
I know this being scottish and having lived in dublin with my ex(irish)girlfriend, I myself am scottish born and bred, my father is irish born and bred. I never and would never callmyself an irish scot as the term is slightly ridiculous. I have never grown up in ireland and been assimilated by its - culture, people, language, beliefs, sense of inward and outward perspective, ideology, political beliefs, social structure, etc etc etc. these are the things that makes someone scottish, irish or american.
as for ethnicity, there is no such thing as irish or scottish ethnicity the irish and scots are madeup of celts, scandanavian, iberian, anglo, norman, etc etc etc. if your ancestors werescottish or irish you have northern european ethnicity. We scots and irish are as mixed as any other northern europeans.
I also disagree with the concept that americans say they are 50% irish, have they ever had a dna test. ?americans who think they are irish americans probably have amajority of other foreign lines in their ethnicity. Lines that are even outwith europe.
I personally dont believe you have to be born in scotland to be scottish, nor do I believe that if your ancestors are scots, makes youscottish. I believe and I know many irish and scots will agree, that being brought up in ireland or scotland makes you scottish because that is the fundemental principle that shapes who you are
I wouldnt not take offense of someone says youare not irish or scottish, america has a distinct culture. and I am not talking of nationality
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"You cannot be both sane and well educated and disbelieve in evolution. The evidence is so strong that any sane, educated person has got to believe in evolution."
-- Richard Dawkins,
"What the f*ck was that" - Mayor of hiroshima 1945
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| dundee |
Posted: 20-Mar-2008, 03:16 PM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 1,176
Joined: 01-Aug-2003
Zodiac: Reed
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| QUOTE (scotborn @ 20-Mar-2008, 02:57 PM) | I can understand the feeling of native irish ho get pissed of with americans, australians, canadians etc claiming to be irish. the fact is that the irish do not consider themirish just because of their ancestors.
I know this being scottish and having lived in dublin with my ex(irish)girlfriend, I myself am scottish born and bred, my father is irish born and bred. I never and would never callmyself an irish scot as the term is slightly ridiculous. I have never grown up in ireland and been assimilated by its - culture, people, language, beliefs, sense of inward and outward perspective, ideology, political beliefs, social structure, etc etc etc. these are the things that makes someone scottish, irish or american.
as for ethnicity, there is no such thing as irish or scottish ethnicity the irish and scots are madeup of celts, scandanavian, iberian, anglo, norman, etc etc etc. if your ancestors werescottish or irish you have northern european ethnicity. We scots and irish are as mixed as any other northern europeans.
I also disagree with the concept that americans say they are 50% irish, have they ever had a dna test. ?americans who think they are irish americans probably have amajority of other foreign lines in their ethnicity. Lines that are even outwith europe.
I personally dont believe you have to be born in scotland to be scottish, nor do I believe that if your ancestors are scots, makes youscottish. I believe and I know many irish and scots will agree, that being brought up in ireland or scotland makes you scottish because that is the fundemental principle that shapes who you are
I wouldnt not take offense of someone says youare not irish or scottish, america has a distinct culture. and I am not talking of nationality |
they are merely talking about their heritage... where their parents were from...
america as you may know is a huge mosaic of many many different nationalities...
key word being nation... they identify with their national heritage ....
na·tion /ˈneɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ney-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own
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| scotborn |
Posted: 20-Mar-2008, 04:28 PM
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Servant
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 46
Joined: 01-Mar-2008
Zodiac: Rowan
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| QUOTE (dundee @ 20-Mar-2008, 04:16 PM) | | QUOTE (scotborn @ 20-Mar-2008, 02:57 PM) | I can understand the feeling of native irish ho get pissed of with americans, australians, canadians etc claiming to be irish. the fact is that the irish do not consider themirish just because of their ancestors.
I know this being scottish and having lived in dublin with my ex(irish)girlfriend, I myself am scottish born and bred, my father is irish born and bred. I never and would never callmyself an irish scot as the term is slightly ridiculous. I have never grown up in ireland and been assimilated by its - culture, people, language, beliefs, sense of inward and outward perspective, ideology, political beliefs, social structure, etc etc etc. these are the things that makes someone scottish, irish or american.
as for ethnicity, there is no such thing as irish or scottish ethnicity the irish and scots are madeup of celts, scandanavian, iberian, anglo, norman, etc etc etc. if your ancestors werescottish or irish you have northern european ethnicity. We scots and irish are as mixed as any other northern europeans.
I also disagree with the concept that americans say they are 50% irish, have they ever had a dna test. ?americans who think they are irish americans probably have amajority of other foreign lines in their ethnicity. Lines that are even outwith europe.
I personally dont believe you have to be born in scotland to be scottish, nor do I believe that if your ancestors are scots, makes youscottish. I believe and I know many irish and scots will agree, that being brought up in ireland or scotland makes you scottish because that is the fundemental principle that shapes who you are
I wouldnt not take offense of someone says youare not irish or scottish, america has a distinct culture. and I am not talking of nationality |
they are merely talking about their heritage... where their parents were from...
america as you may know is a huge mosaic of many many different nationalities...
key word being nation... they identify with their national heritage ....
na·tion /ˈneɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ney-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own
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I understand that there are americans who are proudoftheir heritage, I am proud ofmy irish heritage. but thats not what I am talking about. I am talking about americans who actually claim to be irish or scottish. AndI have to ask why you include a definition of nation. ?
americans regardless of their irish or scottish heritage are not associated with ireland or scotland. Nottomention the vast, vast majority of "irish" americans have many other blood lines eminating frommany other countries.
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| UlsterScotNutt |
Posted: 21-Mar-2008, 09:04 AM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 839
Joined: 05-Feb-2008
Zodiac: Birch
Realm: New England, USA
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And this is why this dialoque is important. From different views and perspectives and from unique mentalities we approach this Celtic discussion.
I am an American national of Irish descent of Scottish descent. I am not an Irish or Scottish national. Using the words Irish and Scottish to describe oneself needs to be taken in context and understood that way.
The term Scots Irish, Scotch Irish are duly accepted, historically accurate and very specific to a peoples . References upon request.
And of course to each his own for many, there are those that cover both extremes to identify themselves and who can claim what they want.
America is a founded nation populated by citizens of established nations and retitled Americans only in the very recent history of time. Indigenous peoples to this geography are another story entirely.
As for me, I can trace everyone of my ancestors back to 1690 so far, so I'm pretty sure from wence I came.
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Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. Plato(427-347 BC) Philosopher and Educator
Three things in human life are important: The first is to be kind. The second is to be kind. And the third is to be kind. Henry James (1843-1916) Writer
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire
kind people. -Abraham Joshua Heschel (1907-1972) Theology Professor
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