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Camac
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 11:56 AM
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At the suggestion of the Lady of Avalon (my Friend) I was wondering if there are any of my fellow posters who are interested in the History and Mythology (one must have one to have the other in Greek History) of the founders of Western Civilization, The Ancient Greeks from their origins until the final subjugation by Rome.


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 03:33 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 03-Aug-2008, 12:56 PM)
At the suggestion of the Lady of Avalon (my Friend) I was wondering if there are any of my fellow posters who are interested in the History and Mythology (one must have one to have the other in Greek History) of the founders of Western Civilization, The Ancient Greeks from their origins until the final subjugation by Rome.


Camac.

I'm very glad that we have one of our most historically educated fellow member starting a new topic here in the historical archives.

Thanks Camac.

Though I haven't read much about the origins of this great and complex civilization.
The greeks are to be believed descendants of the hellenic tribes that migrated to the Balkan and then there was the Mycenean culture which I think was around the time of Homer and all these great philosophers who not only wrote great stories but were also historians.

As for their mythology it's been so long since I've read anything about the subject, I've forgotten pretty much all of it. One thing I remember though is that all their Gods and what they represent is quite complex and sometimes hard to follow.

Please tell us a bit of your knowledge about the beginning of this great civilization and their rich history that made us who and what we are today.

LOA


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iolanda 
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 04:41 PM
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Hi Camac,
I'm interested about this argoment and I would like to know something more on this ancient civilization o'er of that I'm studied in the past. Also I think the better way to learn and delve into, is "talking about" (Like Socrate said, in another form)and it can be a valid help or my son,too (if he decides remain in this school, he studies ancient greek language and civilization also; because he wants to change.. sad.gif another problem).
Anyway.. I think it's a very good idea.
bye1.gif Slàinte
note.gif Iolanda


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Camac
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 03-Aug-2008, 03:33 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 03-Aug-2008, 12:56 PM)
At the suggestion of the Lady of Avalon (my Friend) I was wondering if there are any of my fellow posters who are interested in the History and Mythology (one must have one to have the other in Greek History) of the founders of Western Civilization, The Ancient Greeks from their origins until the final subjugation by Rome.


Camac.

I'm very glad that we have one of our most historically educated fellow member starting a new topic here in the historical archives.

.

Please tell us a bit of your knowledge about the beginning of this great civilization and their rich history that made us who and what we are today.

LOA

LOA.

My lady makes it sound as though I was a professor of Greek History. I am not just an avid student of these great people.I will gladly share my knowledge with one and all on the subject and try not to sound like a college lecturer.
One thing any student of Ancient Greece has to keep in mind that in order to understand them you must know and understand their Mythology. It would be like someone studying Christianity without know what it is based on,namely the Bible.
So much of Greek Literature and History involves the Gods so one must know and understand the Pantheon or list of the Gods and what they do. A common mistake that a lot of people make is they use the Roman Name for the Gods. Zeus becomes Jupiter, Ares becomes Mars, and Aphrodite becomes Venus. Same Gods different Names.

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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 06:01 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 03-Aug-2008, 05:49 PM)
LOA.

My lady makes it sound as though I was a professor of Greek History. I am not just an avid student of these great people.I will gladly share my knowledge with one and all on the subject and try not to sound like a college lecturer.
One thing any student of Ancient Greece has to keep in mind that in order to understand them you must know and understand their Mythology. It would be like someone studying Christianity without know what it is based on,namely the Bible.
So much of Greek Literature and History involves the Gods so one must know and understand the Pantheon or list of the Gods and what they do. A common mistake that a lot of people make is they use the Roman Name for the Gods. Zeus becomes Jupiter, Ares becomes Mars, and Aphrodite becomes Venus. Same Gods different Names.

Camac

Well,my dear you're the one who said that you would've liked to be a history professor. smartass.gif
So here is the opportunity for you to share your knowledge with us.These topics are here not only to share and discuss and argue but also to learn.

The Greeks use ink and paper to teach and learn: nowadays we use the computer and learn from around the world,something that they didn't have then.They had to travel for months even years to learn from other cultures.

Like I said in my previous posts, their mythology is the base of their culture yes but at the same time quite complex, one: they had so many Gods, two:trying to remember all of what they represent.
And yes the Romans had the same Gods with differents names but I guess they were copycats... tongue.gif a little bit.

The Pantheon is no small thing, I would like to know more about it.
Was it a church of some kind or an institution?

LOA
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mainopsman 
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 06:11 PM
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Camac and Lady of Avalon:

Thank you for starting another interesting topic. A lot of us are interested in History, maybe not the same period but interested.

I have had a love of History since I was in elememtary school. However most lower level education is very short on any indepth study of any one period. But, what we did have hooked me. As a result, I have studied History most of my life, much to the frustration of my History professors in college. I dearly loved to argue the facts with them.

I am looking forward to more posts in this thread. Thank you again for keeping us interested.

JIM


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (mainopsman @ 03-Aug-2008, 07:11 PM)
Camac and Lady of Avalon:

Thank you for starting another interesting topic. A lot of us are interested in History, maybe not the same period but interested.

I have had a love of History since I was in elememtary school. However most lower level education is very short on any indepth study of any one period. But, what we did have hooked me. As a result, I have studied History most of my life, much to the frustration of my History professors in college. I dearly loved to argue the facts with them.

I am looking forward to more posts in this thread. Thank you again for keeping us interested.

JIM

You are very welcome Jim,

Hope that you'll come by from time to time and share with us the wonderful subject of History.

Thanks, LOA
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Camac
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE
Camac,03-Aug-2008, 05:49 PM]
LOA.

My lady makes it sound as though I was a professor of Greek History. I am not just an avid student of these great people.I will gladly share my knowledge with one and all on the subject and try not to sound like a college lecturer.
One thing any student of Ancient Greece has to keep in mind that in order to understand them you must know and understand their Mythology. It would be like someone studying Christianity without know what it is based on,namely the Bible.
So much of Greek Literature and History involves the Gods so one must know and understand the Pantheon or list of the Gods and what they do. A common mistake that a lot of people make is they use the Roman Name for the Gods. Zeus becomes Jupiter, Ares becomes Mars, and Aphrodite becomes Venus. Same Gods different Names.



QUOTE
And yes the Romans had the same Gods with differents names but I guess they were copycats... tongue.gif a little bit.

The Pantheon is no small thing, I would like to know more about it.
Was it a church of some kind or an institution?

LOA


LOA.

The Romans were perhaps the greatest Military and Engineers of their time but in art, philosophy, and religion they were copy-cats.

The Pantheon is a Temple to all Gods built by the Roman Emperor Trajan but in the context I used it it means the Assembly of the Gods. ie:

Greek ---------- Roman

Zeus ------------ Jupiter
Hera ------------- Juno
Athena ---------- Minerva
Apollo ----------- Apollo
Hermes --------- Mercury
Ares ------------- Mars
Aphrodite ------- Venus
Hephaestus ----- Vulcan
Artemis---------- Diana

These are just a few of the many both the Greeks and the Romans had.
As I said through out Greek history there are many references to the Gods and they played an important part in the everyday lifes of these ancient people.

My Lady I fear you have started a snowball rolling down hill getting larger with each turn.


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Camac
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE (iolanda @ 03-Aug-2008, 04:41 PM)
Hi Camac,
I'm interested about this argoment and I would like to know something more on this ancient civilization o'er of that I'm studied in the past. Also I think the better way to learn and delve into, is "talking about" (Like Socrate said, in another form)and it can be a valid help or my son,too (if he decides remain in this school, he studies ancient greek language and civilization also; because he wants to change.. sad.gif another problem).
Anyway.. I think it's a very good idea.
                                                          bye1.gif Slàinte
                                                              note.gif Iolanda

Hello Iolanda;
I am most pleased that you are interested in this subject but before I go on, correct me if I misunderstood but the school your son attends is teaching him the Greek language and about their civilization and you said he wants to change. If I may, and I apologize if I interfere, if he has no interest in these subjects no one can force them on him. he must want to learn for himself. I myself was born lucky with an insatiable appetite for history and when I was young I saw the original movie Helen of Troy and was hooked. Perhaps my ancestors were of the original Keltoi that the Greeks mentioned.


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 03-Aug-2008, 07:50 PM)


My Lady I fear you have started a snowball rolling down hill getting larger with each turn.


Camac.

You don't think to go "chicken" on me now do you? nono.gif
Let's roll the ball as big as we can and have fun with it, n'est-ce pas? angel_not.gif


Now, Ancient Greece has a lot to talk about,well then let's talk.

We know that all of these Gods and Goddesses were part of their everyday lifes but why, was it beliefs or superstition? Would they go on with their lifes in accord of what a God or Goddess would lead them to do?

Were they like the Egyptians, building temples upon temples for different Gods and
Goddesses to give offerings?

LOA
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Camac
Posted: 03-Aug-2008, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 03-Aug-2008, 07:54 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 03-Aug-2008, 07:50 PM)


My Lady I fear you have started a snowball rolling down hill getting larger with each turn.


Camac.

You don't think to go "chicken" on me now do you? nono.gif
Let's roll the ball as big as we can and have fun with it, n'est-ce pas? angel_not.gif


Now, Ancient Greece has a lot to talk about,well then let's talk.

We know that all of these Gods and Goddesses were part of their everyday lifes but why, was it beliefs or superstition? Would they go on with their lifes in accord of what a God or Goddess would lead them to do?

Were they like the Egyptians, building temples upon temples for different Gods and
Goddesses to give offerings?

LOA

LOA;

Basically the Greeks had two sets of Gods, The Olympians, who were the Supreme Gods, the Heavy Weights. To these they built Temples and offered daily sacrifice officiated over by the priest and augurs. The Greeks also had Household Gods such as Hestia, Goddess of the Hearth. Each household had a shrine to one of these minor Gods or Goddess. There were also the Muses, Furies, Naiads(Nymphs) and Satyrs. (Pan) They were important to the everyday life of the Greeks. It would be like Christians praying to God,Saints, and Angels. They Prayed to Demeter for a good harvest to Aesclapius for good health, To Posiedon for a safe sea journey or to prevent earthquakes. In times of plague they prayed to Apollo. When in love they would envoke Aphrodite to send Eros to shoot his arrow into their chosens' heart. They really were no different in their beliefs and supertitions than people are to-day.


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iolanda 
Posted: 04-Aug-2008, 05:33 AM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 04-Aug-2008, 01:14 AM)
QUOTE (iolanda @ 03-Aug-2008, 04:41 PM)
Hi Camac,
I'm interested about this argoment and I would like to know something more on this ancient civilization o'er of that I'm studied in the past. Also I think the better way to learn and delve into, is "talking about" (Like Socrate said, in another form)and it can be a valid help or my son,too (if he decides remain in this school, he studies ancient greek language and civilization also; because he wants to change.. sad.gif another problem).
Anyway.. I think it's a very good idea.
                                                          bye1.gif Slàinte
                                                               note.gif Iolanda

Hello Iolanda;
I am most pleased that you are interested in this subject but before I go on, correct me if I misunderstood but the school your son attends is teaching him the Greek language and about their civilization and you said he wants to change. If I may, and I apologize if I interfere, if he has no interest in these subjects no one can force them on him. he must want to learn for himself. I myself was born lucky with an insatiable appetite for history and when I was young I saw the original movie Helen of Troy and was hooked. Perhaps my ancestors were of the original Keltoi that the Greeks mentioned.


Camac.

Good morning Camac,
thank you very much for the education committee about my son. I really appreciate it because I' m so confused on this decision and I don't know exactly what to do in regards of this.
Also, I see that he really doesn't has vague idea about what to choose in alternative.
Any way,I'm not want to be boring, also it isn't the appropriate topic to talk about.
If you pleased to give me an help in regards to, we can talk on "Family Matters". I will be very glad.
You're right, you've to born lucky with your immense love for History, but we should be lucky, too, if you share your vast knowledge with us.
Thank you for this, Camac.
bye1.gif Slàinte
iolanda note.gif
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Camac
Posted: 04-Aug-2008, 07:19 AM
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Iolanda;

Good morning it is 08:20 and I am having my coffee. You are right this forum is on Greek History and we will stay focused on that. I am a firm believer in that all knowledge should be free and available to anyone interested. I will do my best to share what I have. Please remember that I am not an expert and will make mistakes .

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Camac
Posted: 04-Aug-2008, 02:18 PM
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The Greeks.

There were people living in the Greek Peninsular before the Greek Speaking people arrived They have been named Pelasgians. Little is known about them mainly because the Greeks arrived in such great numbers that they completely submerged the original inhabitants. The Greeks are believed to originate in the upper northwest part of the Balkan Penisular and were mountain people. They migrated in two great waves. The first were the Ionians which settle in the southeast of Greece mainly Attica and from there spread out into the Aegean and finally Asia Minor. This first wave occured roughly 3 to 4 thousand years BCE. the second wave the Doric or Dorians came as conquerors sometime between 13 and 11 hundred BCE. They were also Greek speaking and where as the Ionians were dark haired the Doric were blonde. They settled mainly in what became the Peloponese or southwestern Greece. these two people would become the Ancient Greeks as we know them with the two best known as Athenians and Spartans. These are the people that laid the foundation for Western Civilization.Over the next 1100 years they would give the world, Art, Architecture, Astronomy,Literature, Theatre, Science, Medicine, Mathematics, Philosophy, Law and of course Democracy. The modern world owes much to these people.


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 04-Aug-2008, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 04-Aug-2008, 03:18 PM)
The Greeks.

There were people living in the Greek Peninsular before the Greek Speaking people arrived They have been named Pelasgians. Little is known about them mainly because the Greeks arrived in such great numbers that they completely submerged the original inhabitants. The Greeks are believed to originate in the upper northwest part of the Balkan Penisular and were mountain people. They migrated in two great waves. The first were the Ionians which settle in the southeast of Greece mainly Attica and from there spread out into the Aegean and finally Asia Minor. This first wave occured roughly 3 to 4 thousand years BCE. the second wave the Doric or Dorians came as conquerors sometime between 13 and 11 hundred BCE. They were also Greek speaking and where as the Ionians were dark haired the Doric were blonde. They settled mainly in what became the Peloponese or southwestern Greece. these two people would become the Ancient Greeks as we know them with the two best known as Athenians and Spartans. These are the people that laid the foundation for Western Civilization.Over the next 1100 years they would give the world, Art, Architecture, Astronomy,Literature, Theatre, Science, Medicine, Mathematics, Philosophy, Law and of course Democracy. The modern world owes much to these people.


Camac.

Yes i agree with your statement that we owe them much.
Even today we can see modern buidings built with similar architecture of the Parthenon of Greece.

Some would say that Babylone is the cradle of civilization but I've always been sceptic about this theory.

LOA
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