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Celeste of the Stars1 
  Posted: 17-Dec-2003, 04:29 AM
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A friend of mine sent this to me. I thought it was very interesting and refreshing.
She recieved this from a ex-friend of hers that bout 3 years before told her that she was the devil and she and everyone that believed what she did were going to burn in hell. Well burn baby burn!
Tell me what you think.


A Christian Speaks of Wicca and Witchcraft
by James Clement Taylor
------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am a Christian and not a Wiccan. A Christian is one
who has been baptized in the name of the Father, Son,
and Holy Spirit, and who has made a personal,
free-will decision to commit himself and all his or
her life to our Lord and God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Both of these things are true of me. I am a member of
St. Mary's Eastern Orthodox Church, Calhan, Colorado.
In this paper, I am not speaking as agent for any
church, but I am, entirely on my own responsibility,
speaking the truth in love, as we Christians are
supposed to do.

A Situation of Strife and Shame:

There are many Christians today who believe that
anyone who is not a Christian is doomed to an eternity
of suffering in hell. Any decent person, believing
this, would be compelled to try to save as many people
from this fate as possible. But is this belief
correct? Jesus Christ, having noted the faith and
righteousness of a Roman centurion, a Pagan,
proclaimed:

"Assuredly I say to you, I have not found such great
faith, not even in Israel! And I say to you that many
will come from east and west, and sit down with
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into
outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of
teeth." (Matthew 8:10-12)

If we accept these words as true, and surely we
should, then it is clear that heaven will contain many
who are not Christians, and hell will contain many who
are! Clearly, throughout the Gospels, Jesus Christ
sets forth the criteria for entrance into the kingdom
of heaven, and those criteria include love, kindness, forgiveness, and
a refusal to judge others:

"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your
heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do
not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your
Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:14-15)

"For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged;
and with the same measure you use, it will be measured
back to you." (Matthew 7:2)

"But go and learn what this means: `I desire mercy and
not sacrifice.'" (Matthew 9:13)

"Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is
merciful. Judge not, and you shall not be judged.
Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive,
and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:36-38)

Is it not clear? Anyone who fails in these things,
will calling himself a Christian save him? Anyone who
obeys God in these things, will being unbaptized
condemn him? Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to Me,
`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but
he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matthew
7:21)

Yet it is not by good works that we earn our way into
heaven, because there is no way we can earn the free
gift of God's mercy and grace, which alone can save
us. But it is clear that it is not by faith, in the
sense of sharing the Christian faith, that we are
saved, either. The faith which saves us is not faith
in the goodness of our works, nor faith that we have
the right theology and/or belong to the right church.
Rather, it is faith in God, and in His mercy:

"So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who
runs, but of God who has mercy." (Romans 9:16)

But the Wiccans, you will say, do not have faith in
God. Yet by their own theology, they certainly do.
Those who call them Satan-worshippers are entirely
wrong. They do not worship Satan, or even believe that
Satan exists. Instead, they worship a Goddess and a
God whom they understand as manifestations of a higher
and unknown Deity.

Now if you are a Christian, this will sound familiar
to you, and it should. In the Bible we find the
following:

"Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and
said, `Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things
you are very religious; for as I was passing through
and considering the objects of your worship, I even
found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN
GOD. Therefore, The One whom you worship without
knowing, Him I proclaim to you" (Acts 17:22-23)

The Wiccans worship the Unknown God, as manifested to
them in the form of a Goddess and a God. Therefore,
our Bible tells us they worship the same God we do;
and if they do not know this, we should know it!

For those of us who are unable to simply stand on
God's Word, and must prove to themselves the truth of
what it proclaims the holy Apostle John has given us
the method for doing this. You have only to attend any
public Wiccan ceremony, and test the spirits which are
there, to see "whether they are of God" (1 John 4:1).
You will find that, while the power manifested there
may be less than what you have experienced as a
Christian, that power is clearly the power of God.

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, these people of
Wicca have been terribly slandered by us. They have
lost jobs, and homes, and places of business because
we have assured others that they worship Satan, which
they do not. We have persecuted them, and God will
hold us accountable for this, you may be sure, for He
has said, "Assuredly I say to you, inasmuch as you did
it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did
it to Me." (Matthew 25:40)

Let us, from this point onward, repent of our misdeeds
and declare that henceforth we shall obey Christ our
God, and not judge others or condemn them, so that He
will not have to judge and condemn us for our sins.


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Have a day!

Merry Meet, Merry Part and Merry Meet Again
Blessed Be,
*Celeste of the Stars*

"Always shoot for the moon that way if you miss you'll always land among the stars"

'An it harm non do what you will'
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RavenWing 
Posted: 17-Dec-2003, 09:57 AM
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hmmm. That is something I will be pondering on today.


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oldraven 
Posted: 17-Dec-2003, 10:17 AM
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I told either you or Rider the exact same thing in chat one day. Any Christian who claims you're going to hell doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground. We don't have that athority, and so can't make those judgements.

This article outlines my faith for the past two years. thumbs_up.gif

Thank you for sharing, Celeste. king.gif


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myriad 
Posted: 17-Dec-2003, 10:37 AM
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Wow. Considers the words solemnly. Reflects on the passages stated and considers the idea presented here. Hmmmm. Well, it is about time someone said it. I agree whole-heartedly.

My only concern is this: when Paul professed to them the Unknown God... what was his purpose in doing so and what was their response. I believe that these verses are very much taken into the context of the chapter that they reside in and the book, and this is good to see for a change. So many times words are misconstrued and I believe this person did not misconstrue them ... however, there is more to the story.

Peace to all and good tidings for happy holidays.
In Love,
Mary
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Raven 
Posted: 17-Dec-2003, 12:08 PM
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I guess what confuses me is why people get upset because others believe differently.

I used to have a friend who would come to my house and tell me that I was going to hell. (a bit more personal and confrontational than what I would site as a typical example tongue.gif ) I can understand why some people would be very very put off by this type of behavior and this is not exactly what I am talking about.

I just see anger many times at someone expressing a different belief or viewpoint. Often under the guise of freedom of religeous expression.

Now I'm going to lay my belief on you biggrin.gif

If some one believes something different than yourself (points finger at own chest for emphasis) and you don't agree and are not at any point disuaded from your original stance why should it even effect you, if you believe they are wrong and you are right. I know that all of our emotions can get in the way (and I am not saying anyone previous in this fits this bill just rambling) smile.gif

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night

Mikel


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Aaediwen 
Posted: 17-Dec-2003, 12:22 PM
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Certainly something that I agree with. I believe in one polynomial, multifaceted diety, one that although is referred to by a different name and wearing different faces for those of different beliefs, is still one and the same. In my fiew, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the same being as the Mother Goddess, Dana, Zeus, Allah, etc... After all, we are talking about an omnipotent spiritual being, why couldn't God/Goddess inhabit multiple identities and bodies at the same time?


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Celeste of the Stars1 
Posted: 17-Dec-2003, 05:54 PM
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I just wanted to thank everybody for all the feed back!

Aaedi- they do in a sense. Thats why there are so many different names for the same "Person" (for lack of a better word).
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 17-Dec-2003, 06:10 PM
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meh, that's just as bad as everyone thinks "ew.." seeing a goth..
Being slightly into that direction myself I have problems understanding persons that get upset when someone is different.

I was born different, and I always had problems with ppl just because I act in a different way "normal" people do.. Goodness, it really confuses me and sometimes makes me very mad...


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MDF3530 
  Posted: 17-Dec-2003, 06:34 PM
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When it comes to subjects like this, I believe that Ian McKellen said it best as Magneto in the movie X-Men: "Humanity has always feared what it doesn't understand." Take the atrocities that the Puritians inflicted upon others during the Salem witch "trials".


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Celeste of the Stars1 
Posted: 17-Dec-2003, 07:23 PM
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As my husband likes to say. "Whos to say the "normal" people are really the "normal" ones? Whos to say I'm not the "normal" one?"
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Angel Whitefang (Rider) 
Posted: 18-Dec-2003, 05:17 AM
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Oh Cel, Thank you so much for sharing that. Do you mind if I take a copy of it and keep it on my comp?

It says it so simply if you think about it.

angel.gif
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myriad 
Posted: 18-Dec-2003, 10:19 AM
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Crazed thoughts on normality: wink.gif

Isn't it funny how we use words to categorize people. Like the word normal.... no purpose and meaning in those two syllables until people place meaning on it and in our society normal is to mean what is the norm. LOL and people who think they have it together, and give an outward appearance of normality are the ones who tend to be beligerent to those who accept who they are, as they are and have long ago stopped the insanity of trying to keep up with this "norm". *takes a deap breath. LOL these are the people that eventually will have difficulties with their ummmm stability, if you ask me. I have tried the norm... and I have to say I rather detest it. It takes too much time, money, and effort to keep up with the ever changing societal norms. I have determined to be true to myself... and if I shall be categorized as not being normal or as being crazy. biggrin.gif well so be it. I am the happier for it. I respect and love being around people who enjoy being unique. It is not a rebellious nature but an acceptance of self, a pure and unadulterated love of self. It is as though I live in a gallery of artistic and architectural wonders.
Prosperity to all,
Mary
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Raven 
Posted: 18-Dec-2003, 10:31 AM
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QUOTE (Aon_Daonna @ Dec 17 2003, 06:10 PM)
meh, that's just as bad as everyone thinks "ew.." seeing a goth..
Being slightly into that direction myself I have problems understanding persons that get upset when someone is different.

I was born different, and I always had problems with ppl just because I act in a different way "normal" people do.. Goodness, it really confuses me and sometimes makes me very mad...

I know what you mean Mirri. I dress a little different as a rule and will have people stare at me and even act afraid in some instances. (If I wear my white contacts people really freak out) Just a simple thing like a haircut can offend. Why should anyone else be offended if I wear a mowhawk or have a ring in my nose.

I find this kind of an odd thing about humans. So I guess it should be no suprise that a different spiritual viewpoint should often provoke such animosity or defensiveness.

Good point Aon smile.gif
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Celeste of the Stars1 
Posted: 18-Dec-2003, 01:48 PM
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Of course Ang! This is here for everyone to use.

Huggles
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barddas 
Posted: 18-Dec-2003, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (Aon_Daonna @ Dec 17 2003, 07:10 PM)
meh, that's just as bad as everyone thinks "ew.." seeing a goth..
Being slightly into that direction myself I have problems understanding persons that get upset when someone is different.

I was born different, and I always had problems with ppl just because I act in a different way "normal" people do.. Goodness, it really confuses me and sometimes makes me very mad...

I totally understand where you are coming from Mirri. Being the Goth/Metal kid at school....

Here, here to being an individual! wink.gif


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