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> Would You Have Supported Bonnie Prince Charlie?
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Cragganmore 
Posted: 04-Feb-2009, 11:01 PM
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I am doing research for an upcoming discussion group. Your responses will be very helpful. The question for discussion is whether or not you would have supported the "Young Pretender" to regain the thrones of Scotland and England for his Stuart family in 1745. Your decision should be based on clan history, family genealogy, religion, economics, politics, or other beliefs.
Are you(or would you have been) a jacobite?

Discussion topics:
Timing
Commitment
Attitudes of the Scottish people
Strategy

Thanks for your thoughts


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Camac
Posted: 04-Feb-2009, 11:21 PM
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Cragganmore;

At the time I would have in all probability supported the uprising but in hindsight I have to say no for he would in all probability returned to the way of the Stewarts and brought back the "Divine Right of Kings" plus the fact that he was to French having been raised at the French Court and being exposed to it's corruption and decadence.


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MacDonnchaidh 
Posted: 06-Feb-2009, 03:38 PM
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I most definitely would have supported my rightful King! And here's why..... Well first off the fact that he was a Stuart and rightful heir to the throne would be the main reason to support him, I do believe in the "Divine Right of Kings" and therefore, for better or worse God appointed that this son of James II and VII should be born. As a protestant I wouldn't be in too much favor of a Catholic king let alone one born in Rome, however, again the fact that he was a Stuart would ensure better life for us Scots than would be provided by the usurpers William and Mary. And to top it all off..... I am Scottish, Therefore I am Rebellious.


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glaswegian 
Posted: 05-Apr-2009, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE (MacDonnchaidh @ 06-Feb-2009, 03:38 PM)
I most definitely would have supported my rightful King! And here's why..... Well first off the fact that he was a Stuart and rightful heir to the throne would be the main reason to support him, I do believe in the "Divine Right of Kings" and therefore, for better or worse God appointed that this son of James II and VII should be born. As a protestant I wouldn't be in too much favor of a Catholic king let alone one born in Rome, however, again the fact that he was a Stuart would ensure better life for us Scots than would be provided by the usurpers William and Mary. And to top it all off..... I am Scottish, Therefore I am Rebellious.


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Camac
Posted: 05-Apr-2009, 11:08 AM
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glaswegian;

A related question; I recently heard Prince Charles referred to as "Lord Of the Ilses" I am and always have been lead to believe that title belonged to the MacDonalds. Also in my family Stuart is the French Spelling and the proper name is Stewart. Right or wrong?


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glaswegian 
Posted: 05-Apr-2009, 02:16 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 05-Apr-2009, 11:08 AM)
glaswegian;

A related question; I recently heard Prince Charles referred to as "Lord Of the Ilses" I am and always have been lead to believe that title belonged to the MacDonalds. Also in my family Stuart is the French Spelling and the proper name is Stewart. Right or wrong?


Camac.

Hi camac,

Stuart is a uniquely scottish name. Lord of the isles is a scottish title of nobility dating back to robert the bruce. It is not exclusive to the mcdonalds by any stretch.
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Taliesin 
Posted: 05-Apr-2009, 04:34 PM
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Given who I am today, I probably would not have supported Prince Charles. I am a Reformed Protestant (Orthodox Presbyterian, actually), and at that point, there was just too much bad blood between the Protestants and Catholics for me to have supported a king who may or may not have instituted the same sorts of policies that ended up making martyrs many of the great Protestant leaders of the Reformation.

That being said, I'm open to the possibility that nationalism may have influenced me more than religion, though as I said, given who I am today, I don't see it likely. My family was from the Colquhoun Clan and possibly the Buchanan clan (having lost their last chief in 1682), both of which are situated on the shores of Loch Lomond, pretty close to the Campbells, who fought on the side of the English. The Clan Buchanan took no official position in the Jacobite uprisings, though some in the clan fought at Culloden.

Ultimately, I doubt I would have supported Charles, primarily because of religion. However, if I were in the time it all happened, there's no telling what information I might or might not have that might sway me one way or the other.


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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 05-Apr-2009, 05:06 PM
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Since at the time of the 1745 rising my direct Ewing ancestors had been in the "Colonies" for about 40 years, and had at least a second generation started (as well as the fact there had been at least one generation of Ewings in Ulster prior to their immigration to North America), I don't think we had a "dog in that hunt". Most of the Ewings in Ulster had been "Orange" and I would assume any still there supported the current "Crown". The Clans the Ewings (Ewen, Ewan, Ewin) are normally associated with (Campbell and MacLachlan) would indicate they would have been divided based on which Clan Chief they followed.

I do have to say my Revolutionary War Ewing ancestor had no problem revolting against George Hanover.


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dale914 
Posted: 07-Oct-2009, 10:26 AM
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No. Some of my Clan, Gunn, with other Highland Clans supported the government. A very few of the Gunns were with the Jacobites.
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Camac
Posted: 09-Oct-2009, 11:50 AM
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At the time I would have probably supported him but in retrospect NO. If at all possible watch the BBC Culloden to get some insight into the Bonnie Prince.



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TheCarolinaScotsman 
Posted: 09-Oct-2009, 03:44 PM
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The Mackay Clan were early converts to Presbyterianism and were staunch supporters of the government. In fact my direct ancestor John Mackay gained some renown among his clan for the following.

On the eve of the Battle of Culloden, in April 1746, a party of 350 of the Earl of Cromartie's men, including a contingent from Caithness, were cut off and captured by Ensign John Mackay, whose 200 pro-Royalist troops ambushed them
on their way south to join Bonnie Prince Charlie's army near Inverness.


So I suspect that I would have been loyal to the Hanovers.

Camac, the title "Lord of the Isles" referred to the chief of the MacDonalds until they were defeated by (I think) James I of Scotland. At that point, MacDonlad was forced to cede the title to the King. Chiefs of MacDonalds and the Scottish kings are the only ones to have held the title untill such time that it was given to the Prince of Wales.

Also, originally, the name was spelled Stewart. When Mary Queen of Scots returned to Scotland, she brought the spelling of Stuart, which was the French spelling. After her, the name was spelled Stuart by the Royal branch.


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Patch 
Posted: 10-Oct-2009, 11:21 AM
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My ancestors fought for Prince Charles which is why we arrived in America. I have no doubt I would have fought with them. Strangely today, I am Catholic from the maternal side of the family. The paternal side ( Highland Scot) is Presbyterian.

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glaswegian 
Posted: 11-Oct-2009, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (MacDonnchaidh @ 06-Feb-2009, 03:38 PM)
I most definitely would have supported my rightful King! And here's why..... Well first off the fact that he was a Stuart and rightful heir to the throne would be the main reason to support him, I do believe in the "Divine Right of Kings" and therefore, for better or worse God appointed that this son of James II and VII should be born. As a protestant I wouldn't be in too much favor of a Catholic king let alone one born in Rome, however, again the fact that he was a Stuart would ensure better life for us Scots than would be provided by the usurpers William and Mary. And to top it all off..... I am Scottish, Therefore I am Rebellious.

Your not scottish, you are an american.
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JACOBITE 
Posted: 12-Oct-2009, 09:47 AM
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Just some points of interest.

The vast majority of the Jacobite army was non Catholic.

The Prince was such a devout Catholic that he converted to the CoE though he was supposed to have come back to the Catholic faith prior to his death so really he wasn't that caught up in all the religous stuff.

The name Stuart supposedly came about when Mary Queen of Scots went to France the French had problems with the letter W so it became Stuart.

We are over 250 years away from those times we think differently and live differently.
I enjoy reading about Jacobite history and visiting all the sites of Jacobite interest.
And just because you don't stay in Scotland doesn't mean you can't have a view or a say.Remember the Jacobites weren't exclusively Scottish either French,Irish and English lost their lives as Jacobites as well.
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MacDonnchaidh 
Posted: 14-Oct-2009, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (glaswegian @ 11-Oct-2009, 09:11 PM)
Your not scottish, you are an american.

Actually I'm Canadian, but that was a fairly random comment by you anyway since my post was in February and it is now October, so I fail to see what purpose or relevance your comment on my nationality/culture has at this point. Please enlighten me if you can think of a point or purpose to your comment, I would be most interested as to what it is, and also why you waited so long to make the observation (incorrect as it was) that you did.

MacDonnchaidh
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