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Camac
Posted: 30-Jun-2008, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (DesertRose @ 30-Jun-2008, 07:06 PM)
Ok, back on topic all!  The war of 1812!  What it was about and why?.

I am sure we are all proud  Canadians or Americans. This is not the issue in this topic.  We are here to educate others what the war was about, why and what it accomplished past, present and future.

Peace!  smile.gif

DesertRose;

The War was fought between the U.S. and Great Britain. The land battles were mainly fought in Canada when the U.S. invaded hoping for a quick victory and forcing G.B. to the Treaty table. The U.S. had grievences against G.B. in the form of embargoes and impressment. The War ended in 1815 with nothing of concequesnce achieved in fact everything went right back the way it was.. What it did bring about in the years following was a close friendship between Canada and the U.S. and the worlds longest undefended open border.


Camac

PS To this day neither side can have ships of war stationed on the great lakes. Naval vessels are allowed only to visit and must have permission from both sides.







               
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DesertRose 
Posted: 30-Jun-2008, 07:34 PM
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Dearest Camac!

Our dear LOA is in charge here and I stepped out of line in my recent reply.

I find this topic to be of so much interest and have really enjoyed each and everyone's posts. I find it hard to keep my blasted mouth shut..please forgive me, LOA and others!

Keep on, keep on! Terrific topic!


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Camac
Posted: 30-Jun-2008, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (DesertRose @ 30-Jun-2008, 07:34 PM)
Dearest Camac!

Our dear LOA is in charge here and I stepped out of line in my recent reply.

I find this topic to be of so much interest and have really enjoyed each and everyone's posts. I find it hard to keep my blasted mouth shut..please forgive me, LOA and others!

Keep on, keep on! Terrific topic!

DesertRose;

There is nothing to forgive.

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DesertRose 
Posted: 30-Jun-2008, 07:51 PM
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Camac, you are a very kind soul as is LOA.

I look forward to reading and learning much more in this topic!
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Camac
Posted: 30-Jun-2008, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE (DesertRose @ 30-Jun-2008, 07:51 PM)
Camac, you are a very kind soul as is LOA. 

I look forward to reading and learning much more in this topic!

DesertRose;

I would be very pleased to share any knowledge I have concerning the War of 1812,I have read a great deal about it from both sides and have endeavoured to keep an unbiased approach to it and all History I read about. I must admit though sometimes a little devil in me pops up and takes a shot at Americans. This usually only happens when America starts to meddle in our affairs then I can't resist saying "We whupped you Once wanna go for Two."As I said it only happens on rare occassions. Very Rare. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif wink.gif


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DesertRose 
Posted: 30-Jun-2008, 08:14 PM
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Camac, I am alway ready to be educated.

Keep it coming!
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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 01-Jul-2008, 05:28 AM
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Desert Rose,

Like I said to another member this is not about "getting educated".We are not in a classroom here. We are discussing a subject and exchanging knowledge either by what one know or pass along some good books about the subject on hand.
And it doesn't mean that all in between this; jokes and teasing cannot happened.
No offense taken or intended. Peace LOA

Now Mr.Camac, if you would be so kind as to tell me more about this Isaac Brock!!! thumbs_up.gif

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Camac
Posted: 01-Jul-2008, 08:34 AM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 01-Jul-2008, 05:28 AM)
Desert Rose,

Like I said to another member this is not about "getting educated".We are not in a classroom here. We are discussing a subject and exchanging knowledge either by what one know or pass along some good books about the subject on hand.
And it doesn't mean that all in between this; jokes and teasing cannot happened.
No offense taken or intended. Peace LOA

Now Mr.Camac, if you would be so kind as to tell me more about this Isaac Brock!!! thumbsup.gif

LOA

LOA;

If you go to google www.warof1812.ca/brock you will find two sites about him. There are many other sites that mention him and the one thing they seem to share in common was that he was an excellent officer if somewhat foolhardy. A good example of this is his death. A Major General in full uniform does not lead his men in a charge, this makes him the prime target for every rifleman on the other side. The men he was leading carried the day and won the Battle of Queenston Heights. Brock moved into the realm of Legends.


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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 01-Jul-2008, 09:39 AM
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I pulled this Q & A from another forum topic, Camac asked me this awhile ago and I thought it would fit in here as well as where it was, under Time Travel

QUOTE (Camac @ 14-Apr-2008, 01:53 PM)
UlsterScotNutt;

A question if I may. What would your stance be on New Englands oposition to the War of 1812 and its' continuing trade with British Canada.?


Well lets see, The War of 1812 was a messy war based on alot of different things, some true alot false, still a very messy undertaking with mixed political causes.
For New England, it was part economic, part territorial, part historical and part cultural. I will try and address each of those.

Economics, NE was still suffering economically and felt over taxed for what they were getting in return and benefiting tremendously with trade with GB. They sold alot of goods to GB to support their campaigns in Spain and in their war with France. The merchant shipping was huge in NE and the war would distoy this commerce. The bankers of NE were greatly opposed to disturbing this commerce and were very good at marketing this to the industrious NEnglander. Believing their neutrality and willingness to trade with anybody and special treatment by the British who did not blockade NE ports in the beginning of the war. Some say NE was divided in actually talking secession from the union in order to continue trade, though this was not really an issue nor probably true at all. So economics, unfair taxes, disruption of commerce all played a part.

Territorially NE was very separate from the rest of the union and was upset at a central government taking up alot of the states rights and NE states were very upset with this. They were most susceptible to occupation by the British, ex: Maine and were at the forefront of hostilities again. NE felt they should have more control of their own militia and should be supported with more monies and troops.

Historically NE still was populated by fellow Englishmen and felt a brotherhood though independent and as long as older brother GB allowed younger brother to be. Many felt that GB monarchist trying to reestablish the monarchy in France was a good thing since it was the French monarchy that had helped the US become independent. They saw many US supporters in France executed , like the French Admiral who blockaded Charleston, the king and even LaFayette was in exile.

Culturally, many of the now Canadians were actually from NE originally and there were many many family ties cross border. So NEnglanders did not want to go to war again with their brothers. Many also saw an opportunity to teach the southern states that slavery was an abomination. Britain was offering freedom to southern slaves who fought for GB. Bermuda and Trinidad are settled with alot of these slaves who served for GB.

NE was still a very independent minded group, still had ties to GB for commerce and culture and was pissed off at the central government at this time, so some of this was a temper tantrum. This war and NE stance also caused the collapse of the Federalist party which favored trade and industry and banking to the detriment of agricultural and rural needs.

What a messy time, part of the reason I would like to live it. It was a time of new ways of thinking, changes, growth, debates, concepts, so much was on a tipping point. NE must have been very frenetic and alittle shizophrenic at this time.

I probably would have been a typical NEnglander, no war , continue trade.


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Camac
Posted: 01-Jul-2008, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 01-Jul-2008, 09:39 AM)
I pulled this Q & A from another forum topic, Camac asked me this awhile ago and I thought it would fit in here as well as where it was, under Time Travel

QUOTE (Camac @ 14-Apr-2008, 01:53 PM)
UlsterScotNutt;

A question if I may. What would your stance be on New Englands oposition to the War of 1812 and its' continuing trade with British Canada.?


Well lets see, The War of 1812 was a messy war based on alot of different things, some true alot false, still a very messy undertaking with mixed political causes.
For New England, it was part economic, part territorial, part historical and part cultural. I will try and address each of those.

Economics, NE was still suffering economically and felt over taxed for what they were getting in return and benefiting tremendously with trade with GB. They sold alot of goods to GB to support their campaigns in Spain and in their war with France. The merchant shipping was huge in NE and the war would distoy this commerce. The bankers of NE were greatly opposed to disturbing this commerce and were very good at marketing this to the industrious NEnglander. Believing their neutrality and willingness to trade with anybody and special treatment by the British who did not blockade NE ports in the beginning of the war. Some say NE was divided in actually talking secession from the union in order to continue trade, though this was not really an issue nor probably true at all. So economics, unfair taxes, disruption of commerce all played a part.

Territorially NE was very separate from the rest of the union and was upset at a central government taking up alot of the states rights and NE states were very upset with this. They were most susceptible to occupation by the British, ex: Maine and were at the forefront of hostilities again. NE felt they should have more control of their own militia and should be supported with more monies and troops.

Historically NE still was populated by fellow Englishmen and felt a brotherhood though independent and as long as older brother GB allowed younger brother to be. Many felt that GB monarchist trying to reestablish the monarchy in France was a good thing since it was the French monarchy that had helped the US become independent. They saw many US supporters in France executed , like the French Admiral who blockaded Charleston, the king and even LaFayette was in exile.

Culturally, many of the now Canadians were actually from NE originally and there were many many family ties cross border. So NEnglanders did not want to go to war again with their brothers. Many also saw an opportunity to teach the southern states that slavery was an abomination. Britain was offering freedom to southern slaves who fought for GB. Bermuda and Trinidad are settled with alot of these slaves who served for GB.

NE was still a very independent minded group, still had ties to GB for commerce and culture and was pissed off at the central government at this time, so some of this was a temper tantrum. This war and NE stance also caused the collapse of the Federalist party which favored trade and industry and banking to the detriment of agricultural and rural needs.

What a messy time, part of the reason I would like to live it. It was a time of new ways of thinking, changes, growth, debates, concepts, so much was on a tipping point. NE must have been very frenetic and alittle shizophrenic at this time.

I probably would have been a typical NEnglander, no war , continue trade.

USN;

Good concise article.
The Jay Treaty of 1794, though still a subject of contentious arguement did provide 10 years of peace and profitable commerce between the States and G.B. more so for New England. Two of the main issues that the war was fought over,impressment and the boundray between Canada and Maine were not settle until years after the war was over.


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Camac
Posted: 03-Jul-2008, 04:49 PM
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LOA/USN;

I just watch a program on our History Channel (not the same as the US.) about Black Loyalist troops who fought in the War. Seems they were decendant from slaves who got their freedom from the Brits by fighting during the American Revolution. I'll have to look into this and get more details.


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 03-Jul-2008, 08:21 PM
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Yes please let us know your findings.

Meanwhile I have to say that this is a sad fact that they used these people for fighting their wars while it is practically not even mentionned of their bravery and sacrifice in history books.

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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 07-Jul-2008, 08:48 AM
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LOA,
I don't know if I would call it a sad fact that many slaves from the British colonies in the Americas, and from the USA later on, had an opportunity to escape their slavery and in return become free men.

Slavery was a sad tale, the war and those it caused suffering to is sad. Sad is the lost lives and tales of many brave and honorable men and women who lived and died anonomously within the bigger pictures.

On another slightly side note, many of these freemen of colour also owned slaves. Slaves included African, Native American, Caribs and Arawaks, some even Irish and Scots, rebels sold into slavery.

The war of 1812 was smack in the middle of when the slave trade was being abolished but the ownership of slaves had not been abolished as of yet.

USN
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Camac
Posted: 07-Jul-2008, 10:10 AM
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LOA;

Most of the working class colonist in British North America were orignally Indentured Servants. Selling themselves for seven years servitude in order to pay for their passage. The Cherokees (Friendly Tribes )had many slaves as they tried to emmulate the whiteman. The Early history of both the US and Canada is interwoven with slavery and indenture. Slavery was not abolished by the Brits till around 1840 I believe.


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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 07-Jul-2008, 10:40 AM
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Indentured servitude was practiced in various forms and in some cases was used as another legal form of slavery. The British and French abolished the slave trade at about the same time, 1807 and abolished slavery again about the same time 1833 1834. By 1840 full legal emancipation for slaves, in the British colonies remaining, was in affect. This is the paramount period of indentured servants as the means of replacing the former slave labor and of the most abusive practices.
There were 3 year periods, and 7, with 7 being the most common. Former slave owners even tried to use a 99 year servitude clause. Many indentured servants, regardless of their original terms of 3 or 7 year indenture, never were released from their masters. The poor, freemen, rebels, criminals, emigrants, indigenous peoples all suffered. False and corrupt charges, billings and claims were used against the servants to keep them as the virtual slaves they were. For the first decades of the 1800 up to and thru the Civil War , labor was in such high demand, many business commercial operations resorted to all types of shady, illicit and down right criminal means of supplying their labor requirements.

USN
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