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Posted by: barddas 21-Apr-2004, 12:23 PM
I know that we all come from many different back rounds, and beliefs. I was curious to see how we practice what we believe....

Is it in specific rituals.... everyday unconsious acts... both or more.....

Lets get the ball rolling in here again!;)

Posted by: VetteGal 21-Apr-2004, 11:51 PM
Hello,
I am actually rather new to the wiccan path. I am avidly reading anything I can to learn. I am currently taking online wicca classes at www.whichschool.com. It is for the Correllian tradition. I will follow most of the teaching there but I have also decied that I will at least for now be solitary, and also incorporating celtic and faery wicca into my path. I have not really done much in the ritual sense yet as I have been having troubles meditating and until I can get that down I don't want to really start with rituals yet since I don't want to upset the balance by not being in control of my thoughts during ritual or magick. I do have my craft and magick names, but have not yet found a deity. I figure that will come when I get the meditation down. I cannot focus when trying to meditate, other thoughts keep flowing through my head. Plus, finding the time is difficult. I have even fallen asleep. I just can't figure out how to keep my focus.

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 22-Apr-2004, 12:47 AM
I think for me and most in this house it is everyday acts and Special Rituals . My son abstains from any religious practice, which we don't mind. We encourage both of the kids to find their own paths. We have an eclectic house hold with many different beliefs

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 22-Apr-2004, 12:55 AM
QUOTE (VetteGal @ Apr 22 2004, 12:51 AM)
I have not really done much in the ritual sense yet as I have been having troubles meditating and until I can get that down I don't want to really start with rituals yet since I don't want to upset the balance by being in control of my thoughts during ritual or magick. I do have my craft and magick names, but have not yet found a deity. I figure that will come when I get the meditation down. I cannot focus when trying to meditate, other thoughts keep flowing through my head. Plus, finding the time is difficult. I have even fallen asleep. I just can't figure out how to keep my focus.

A meditational trick I found useful was to sit infront of a candle and stare just past the flame. while doing this I envision a silvery kind of bubble surrounding me. this helped quiet my mind and keep me focused, as I progressed I started visualizing Numbers in front of me. When I successfully went from 100 down to zero then I was ready to visualize pictures.

Posted by: barddas 22-Apr-2004, 08:20 AM
In my little world, it is an everyday, unconsious 'practice'. My thoughts are why practice it? When you can live every moment doing it.

And as far as magick goes, there are times when I will sit down and consiously 'do' magick. But magick is in everything, and can be done in everything....from coooking, to yard work, to music, to crafts.... it is everywhere.
Example, when I am not feeling well, and making dinner for m'wife and I. I will add those herbs that are good for helping with what is bothering me. And there are those little things that are done in the process that help 'infuse' the healing properties of those herbs.


Just my view... I have learned over the years that all the bells and whistles are most of the time, just that. Extras that are not needed. Cerimonial Magick......Golden Dawn, OTO etc..... yes, more elaborate. But, same results.
you don't need to spend lots of money on 'the magick wand of power' when a branch from your tree will do the same thing. If not more because you made it your own.

Posted by: RavenWing 22-Apr-2004, 10:44 AM
Same here, I am not a fan of ritual. To me it seems to be for the benefit of others, and if you are solitary, why bother? Ritual to me is daily life. I always try to take time to notice the plants around me. I constantly talk to animals, (My cat and I have full blown conversations biggrin.gif)

I always try to be aware of what is around me, whether it is physical or metaphysical. I try top meditate, but that is hard sometimes.


I do some fire work occasionally. And when I say fire work I mean candle flame manipulation. I think it is good practice for steadying your mind.




I think my path is leading me away from Wicca. I used to be a die-hard Wiccan, but my life has evolved so much that I think I have moved beyond it. Who knows where my path will take me?

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 22-Apr-2004, 02:04 PM
QUOTE (barddas @ Apr 22 2004, 09:20 AM)
barddas Posted on Apr 22 2004, 09:20 AM
Just my view... I have learned over the years that all the bells and whistles are most of the time, just that. Extras that are not needed. Cerimonial Magick......Golden Dawn, OTO etc..... yes, more elaborate. But, same results.
you don't need to spend lots of money on 'the magick wand of power' when a branch from your tree will do the same thing. If not more because you made it your own.


RavenWing Posted on Apr 22 2004, 11:44 AM
I think my path is leading me away from Wicca. I used to be a die-hard Wiccan, but my life has evolved so much that I think I have moved beyond it. Who knows where my path will take me?

You are so right there, We do small rituals on the Sabbats & Esbats just to make it more special. We don't have fancy stuff & all of it we have been given from nature. From our Wands to the sea shells that are on my Alter to the naturally carved stone I use for my cauldron. If I am looking to do a special casting and don't have all the ingredients I figure if I really need to do it then The Gods will provide me with what I need. nothing less nothing more.

I didn't relize that you were a Kitchen & Garden Witch Bardy,Have you checked out "The Kitchen Witches Cook Book" by Patricia Telesco, there are some wonderful things in there.

RW,
I think of Wica as a stepping stone as each religion is, if it helps your spirit blossom and gives you a greater understanding than what you had before then you are on the correct path. Don't limit yourself to just wicca, I know I don't. There is too much to learn and we have just a short time in this life to learn the lessons we must. What I do know is that I am greatful to have met such wonderful people. We all effect every ones lives in a certain way. If I hadn't been so interested in Celtic Magick and Music I never would have found this site and I never would have met you & Bardy & the others. You all have helped me along my path and I am greatful for each of you. My Grandfather used to say

"If you never forget where you came from, you can never forget who you are no matter where you end up.The people who you meet in this life are the ones you can truly call Family."
I have never forgotten that. No matter where your path leads you & no matter where my path leads me, I know that you and I will always be Family.



Much Love,
angel.gif

Posted by: Aaediwen 22-Apr-2004, 04:43 PM
I don't know that I'm qualified to post here, and my comming inquiry may belong in its own thread. I consider myself Agnostic, but I believe in the truth of the pagan religons, perticularly Wicca. Much of what I practice seems to fit, as I am seeing it, but I don't practice Wicca because I simply don't know....

One of the questions I have now is, is my perception of magick and spells correct? Prime example from work, and one I do use quite often:

User calls in, Irate, and flustered that their computer isn't working, or that they are getting transferred around, or whatever ruffled their feathers.... In the process of helping them with their technical problem, I take various actions, say things a certain way, etc... all with the express purpose of calming them down and having them laughing with me by the end of the call.
Would this be considered casting a spell on the caller? Or am I just ingorant of what a spell really is? Please help inform.

Posted by: maisky 22-Apr-2004, 07:33 PM
One of the things I like MOST about this forum is the broad range of beliefs represented here. thumbs_up.gif

Posted by: barddas 23-Apr-2004, 06:23 AM
QUOTE (Angel Whitefang (Rider) @ Apr 22 2004, 04:04 PM)


I didn't relize that you were a Kitchen & Garden Witch Bardy,Have you checked out "The Kitchen Witches Cook Book" by Patricia Telesco, there are some wonderful things in there.





Much Love,
angel.gif

Yeah, I have it. I used to be producer of a pagan oriented radio program, here in Cincinnati. And also ran a corrispondence network for the 'magickal' community. During that time, we interviewed Trish many times, and she wrote a few articles for the network, when I was trying to transform it into a magazine/journal. She is a really nice lady! I haven't talked with her in years. But when our paths did cross, it was nice to talk with her.

I really enjoy her Victorian Grimore book. Neat stuff.....

Posted by: RavenWing 23-Apr-2004, 06:32 AM
QUOTE (Aaediwen @ Apr 22 2004, 10:43 PM)
User calls in, Irate, and flustered that their computer isn't working, or that they are getting transferred around, or whatever ruffled their feathers.... In the process of helping them with their technical problem, I take various actions, say things a certain way, etc... all with the express purpose of calming them down and having them laughing with me by the end of the call.
Would this be considered casting a spell on the caller? Or am I just ingorant of what a spell really is? Please help inform.




QUOTE

Spell

Definition:  [n]  a verbal formula believed to have magical force; "he whispered a spell as he moved his hands"; "inscribed around its base is a charm in Balinese"
[n]  a psychological state induced by (or as if induced by) a magical incantation
[n]  a period of indeterminate length (usually short) marked by some action or condition; "he was here for a little while"; "I need to rest for a piece"; "a spell of good weather"
[n]  a time for working (after which you will be relieved by someone else); "it's my go"; "a spell of work"
[v]  indicate or signify; "I'm afraid this spells trouble!"
[v]  recite the letters of or give the spelling of; "How do you spell this word?"
[v]  place under a spell
[v]  write or name the letters that comprise the conventionally accepted form of (a word or part of a word); "He spelled the word wrong in this letter"

 
  Synonyms:  charm, enchantment, go, import, magic spell, piece, tour, trance, turn, while, write
 
  Antonyms:  unspell
 
  See Also:  bewitch, captivation, conjuration, curse, duty period, enchant, fascination, glamour, hex, hex, hyphen, hyphenate, incantation, intend, jinx, jinx, language, mean, mental state, misspell, oral communication, possession, psychological state, recite, shift, speech, speech communication, spell out, spoken communication, spoken language, time, voice communication, whammy, witch, work shift



I would say you didn't cast a spell, but you may have used a little magick. Prayer in itself is a form of magick.

Posted by: barddas 23-Apr-2004, 12:56 PM
QUOTE (Angel Whitefang (Rider) @ Apr 22 2004, 04:04 PM)

I think of Wica as a stepping stone as each religion is, if it helps your spirit blossom and gives you a greater understanding than what you had before then you are on the correct path. Don't limit yourself to just wicca, I know I don't. There is too much to learn and we have just a short time in this life to learn the lessons we must. What I do know is that I am greatful to have met such wonderful people. We all effect every ones lives in a certain way. If I hadn't been so interested in Celtic Magick and Music I never would have found this site and I never would have met you & Bardy & the others. You all have helped me along my path and I am greatful for each of you. My Grandfather used to say

"If you never forget where you came from, you can never forget who you are no matter where you end up.The people who you meet in this life are the ones you can truly call Family."
I have never forgotten that. No matter where your path leads you & no matter where my path leads me, I know that you and I will always be Family.



Much Love,
angel.gif

I will agree that Wicca is a good 'stepping stone'.
I personally find it a little too fluffy for my liking. I don't know, maybe it's just me, or the realist in me. I can not see pre christian pagans holding crystals and rambling off ' I take ye crystal of power-- blah, blah, blah.....' Is it JUST ME!
It was about survival, and balance with your natural surroundings. And unfortunately most of us are SO far removed from nature that it loses something.

If you read things on folk practices/ customs of the past you'll see that many of the songs, and stories that were sung and told all have a specific purpose. Example- During planting time there are many old folk songs that speak of the spirits( faeries, gods etc....) aiding in the coming season. THAT IS MAGICK! And those practices were handed down from generation to generation.

But as Christanity ( not slamming) began to flourish, these ways were frowned upon. Sometimes names were changed in these tales and sometimes they didn't. But with that and a smaller demand for families to provide food directly for themselves each season. They started losing their meaning. Make sence?

I'll stop for now.... then we can discuss later wink.gif

Posted by: RavenWing 26-Apr-2004, 07:19 AM
QUOTE (barddas @ Apr 23 2004, 06:56 PM)
QUOTE (Angel Whitefang (Rider) @ Apr 22 2004, 04:04 PM)

I think of Wica as a stepping stone as each religion is, if it helps your spirit blossom and gives you a greater understanding than what you had before then you are on the correct path. Don't limit yourself to just wicca, I know I don't. There is too much to learn and we have just a short time in this life to learn the lessons we must. What I do know is that I am greatful to have met such wonderful people. We all effect every ones lives in a certain way. If I hadn't been so interested in Celtic Magick and Music I never would have found this site and I never would have met you & Bardy & the others. You all have helped me along my path and I am greatful for each of you. My Grandfather used to say

"If you never forget where you came from, you can never forget who you are no matter where you end up.The people who you meet in this life are the ones you can truly call Family."
I have never forgotten that. No matter where your path leads you & no matter where my path leads me, I know that you and I will always be Family.



Much Love,
angel.gif

I will agree that Wicca is a good 'stepping stone'.
I personally find it a little too fluffy for my liking. I don't know, maybe it's just me, or the realist in me. I can not see pre christian pagans holding crystals and rambling off ' I take ye crystal of power-- blah, blah, blah.....' Is it JUST ME!
It was about survival, and balance with your natural surroundings. And unfortunately most of us are SO far removed from nature that it loses something.

If you read things on folk practices/ customs of the past you'll see that many of the songs, and stories that were sung and told all have a specific purpose. Example- During planting time there are many old folk songs that speak of the spirits( faeries, gods etc....) aiding in the coming season. THAT IS MAGICK! And those practices were handed down from generation to generation.

But as Christanity ( not slamming) began to flourish, these ways were frowned upon. Sometimes names were changed in these tales and sometimes they didn't. But with that and a smaller demand for families to provide food directly for themselves each season. They started losing their meaning. Make sence?

I'll stop for now.... then we can discuss later wink.gif

*sigh* I am starting to frrl the same way.



There were no burning times for Wiccans. Wicca is a 50 year old religion. THat is why I like being and eclectic solitary.



Posted by: Dreamer1 26-Apr-2004, 12:14 PM
Hi all,

RavenWing, I agree with you - prayer itself is a form of magic! It's just that it's never presented as such by Christian ministers/leaders. I imagine there are many reasons for that. Spontaneous prayer is the strongest and most appreciated, simply because it is spontaneous, sincerely heartfelt communication rather than dry, rote, almost automatic responsiveness to (sometimes stale) ceremony.
Those short but heartfelt prayers are the ones that I've had answered, almost never the ones given during a worship service!

Something else I've always believed very strongly follows Pagan thoughts about sanctity. The minister I always felt closest to used to teach that God was always with us, He was constantly around us and inside us, His presence was in the trees, rocks, birds, wind, sun, rivers, ...all of our world as well as in Heaven and we didn't have to be inside a church to talk with Him and receive an answer from Him. I've never heard another minister give that message, and he gave it to us in a very soft-spoken, grandfatherly way, very gently reminding us of God's presence in our lives. I realize now that this message is a strongly Pagan point of view as well, and I believe its truthfulness.

Dreamer1

Posted by: 3Ravens 26-Apr-2004, 11:03 PM
The Christian mystics called it living life as a prayer. Some of the nature religions call it living in the now. Other groups call it living with intent. It all means being aware and focused all the time. No autopilot! And it's the hardest thing I ever tried to do.......but it gets better with practice.

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 27-Apr-2004, 03:00 PM
hmmmmmm

I have the feeling that I have upset the apple cart here and that wasn't my intention. sad.gif

PLEASE Don't misunderstand what I was trying to say, I use the word WICCA as a general term. I am also disgusted with the fluffy Bunny Wicca that has developed. My search is for true knowledge and the Truth itself. although Bardy I CAN see our ancestors holding a crystal and calling on it's energy and power.

The point that I was trying to make was that no matter what goes on in our lives, as we grow we shed the old and get brought in to something new. We as people change but we should never forget. We will always be bonded together as a family even if our feet walk different paths. It is OKAY to get interested in something else. We all have specific lessons that we must learn in order to grow how else would we learn if we didn't allow our belief systems to change??


I hope this clears up what I was saying.

much love,
angel.gif

Posted by: Jaxom 28-Apr-2004, 08:19 AM
I've been away for too long. [due to Pagan commitments on other boards] sorry. sad.gif
Good subject guys. I'm enjoying playing catch up. biggrin.gif
love
Jax

Posted by: barddas 28-Apr-2004, 08:44 AM
Angel, No apples knocked off m'cart. smile.gif
And as the crystal thing goes.... There is very little proof that things of that nature happend. However, it is possible! I am sure that stones were carried as 'tokens' etc. And there is Acheology proof that many cultures carried stones, pieces of bone, seeds, and so on with them. But to walk to the east and spat 'fluffy bunny' stuff and go through steps A, B, C..... Nah, can't believe that. What the use for them was? I am afraid we will never * really* know.

I know throughout Celtic England, and Scotland as well. There have been items found in pools of water or former streams etc... Things like swords, carvings, torc's and so on. These items have been found in *high* numbers. Obviously offerings. So, maybe the crystal thing isn't too far off. Like I said stones etc. have been found in burial sites. ( Mainly as jewelry.. loose stone that have been carved into effigies(sp) have also been found.
I guess I am being redundant.. I just can not see the 'Fluffy' stuff happening during the Pre-Christian time periods.
Or maybe I am just a bit cracked?! LOL!

Angel, I'm not pickin' or anything.... OK? smile.gif

Jaxom!!!! Good to see ya!!!!!

Posted by: RavenWing 28-Apr-2004, 08:49 AM
QUOTE (barddas @ Apr 28 2004, 02:44 PM)
I guess I am being redundant.. I just can not see the 'Fluffy' stuff happening during the Pre-Christian time periods.
Or maybe I am just a bit cracked?! LOL!

Angel, I'm not pickin' or anything.... OK? smile.gif

Jaxom!!!! Good to see ya!!!!!

Nor can I.


I can't see pre-Christian's complaining about "the burning times"



Posted by: barddas 28-Apr-2004, 10:16 AM
Mary, so when do you think this practice of crystal using etc. started? Do you think it was with, Gerald Gardner, the 'father of modern day wicca'? Or before?
This is an interesting topic mutation.
I am sure in *someways* it may have always been done to anextent. But not to the degree it is today. There is too much of a cerimonial magick aspect to it, today. For it to be considered typical , common folk magick.
Thoughts.....????


Here are a few sites that I found about Gerald Gardner.
http://www.geraldgardner.com/index/main.shtml

http://www.bcholmes.org/wicca/gardner.html

http://www.controverscial.com/Gerald%20Brosseau%20Gardner.htm

Posted by: RavenWing 28-Apr-2004, 01:20 PM
QUOTE (barddas @ Apr 28 2004, 04:16 PM)



Here are a few sites that I found about Gerald Gardner.
http://www.geraldgardner.com/index/main.shtml

http://www.bcholmes.org/wicca/gardner.html

http://www.controverscial.com/Gerald%20Brosseau%20Gardner.htm

QUOTE
Mary, so when do you think this practice of crystal using etc. started? Do you think it was with, Gerald Gardner, the 'father of modern day wicca'? Or before?


Good question. I can see people using them for ages, maybe as a talisman? Someone may have seen a pretty rock that "just had something about it", picked it up and had good luck from then on.

I can see how a practice like this can evolve from "I like this rock" to "this rock protects me" to "I can cure you with this rock".



QUOTE
This is an interesting topic mutation.
I am sure in *someways* it may have always been done to anextent. But not to the degree it is today. There is too much of a cerimonial magick aspect to it, today. For it to be considered typical , common folk magick.
Thoughts.....????


I personally see too much emphasis placed on crystals. They are great tools, and pretty enough for "high ceremonial magick".





Where am I trying to go with this?? I have too many thoughts in my brain. I will just state how I feel about it.


Crystals are great. I think they are overused. I see people relying too much on a crystal instead of what is flowing through them, especially quartz crystals. I have a few, I think they are pretty, and I liked the feel I got from them. They are happy with me.

I do not use them for any ceremonial reasons. I would rather use pebbles I have found in a creek, and that would be more for marking my circle. (which I hardly do)

I am rambling.

I realize that I would rather use what energy is coming through me. I have been struggling with using herbs and other items. I wonder why I should take them, just because I "want to do a spell" for some reason. Should we be relying on what is inside us rather than our surroundings?





Ok, enough rambling. Jason, I hope you can make sense of this. It was good to sort out some things.

Posted by: barddas 28-Apr-2004, 02:20 PM
I understand what you are trying to get across, Mary. It seems as if these bells and whistles are becoming more important than the ritual itself. Like, 'You can't do it unless you have the ....BLAH' Says who?!

I think your comment about using things that are personal and found by your means is much more effective than going to the stone or Occult shop and buying the Large quartz 'because it will be more effective.'......
And also it comes back to our lack of connection with the natural world. And the over abundance of stimuli that one has to block out in todays world.
So, in that sence I can see where items like crystals etc. are benifical to the user!!! smile.gif But in my mind, I tried to stive to not use them and use *my* 'inner power' ( so to speak) That is just me. I try to pull form the things in nature already. And I am lucky that my yard, and local woods are running over with things, that already put me in a mindset for Magick.
Everyone is diferent! And different things work for different people........

And I can agree with you, Mary on your brief 'evolution' of the possible use of crystals stonesand what not. Good theory, and plausable.

Ok, what are thoughts on ritual knives( Athame') or swords, boleens etc?

Posted by: Aaediwen 28-Apr-2004, 04:50 PM
/me peeks in
May I step in where I'm not qualified again?
or should I just say what I have to say and let you more knowledgeable folks tell me if I'm qualified to not...

I make no secret that I consider myself agnostic. My main reason for this as opposed to some form of paganism is that I don't understand the symbolism and ritual. I don't understand what meaning various symbols mean in context. And an Agnostic stance frees me from symbolic connotations. As such, I hold, use, and carry no religous symbols. I do not wear a pentacle or a cross, I don't have any form of wand, atheme, rosary, or crusifix. I believe this to be where many religons have gone wrong. They place too much importance on symbols, and not enough on what they represent.

However, I cannot deny the omnipresence of God/Goddess. I feel it all the time, I see it. I hear it. I can't explain it, nor do I really care to. I can feel energies, perticularly when I pay attention to it. I can't see auras, but I can sense to a small degree, what kind of person they are on sight (not exceptionally accurate).

Any symbols I use, or anything that might be considered a ritual; I'm not aware of any spiritual/religous context of it. For me, it seems that the most physical representation of the spirit realm in my life (that I'm aware of anyway) is the creative arts. Words, Music, and drawing/painting/sketching/etc...


Opinions welcome smile.gif This is one subject I want a lot more information on. Please help educate me =)

Posted by: RavenWing 29-Apr-2004, 06:46 AM
Why says you're not qualified? Come on in and join the discussion, Aaediwen.


smile.gif

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 29-Apr-2004, 03:53 PM
QUOTE (barddas @ Apr 28 2004, 09:44 AM)
Angel, No apples knocked off m'cart. smile.gif
And as the crystal thing goes.... There is very little proof that things of that nature happend. However, it is possible! I am sure that stones were carried as 'tokens' etc. And there is Acheology proof that many cultures carried stones, pieces of bone, seeds, and so on with them. But to walk to the east and spat 'fluffy bunny' stuff and go through steps A, B, C..... Nah, can't believe that. What the use for them was? I am afraid we will never * really* know.

I know throughout Celtic England, and Scotland as well. There have been items found in pools of water or former streams etc... Things like swords, carvings, torc's and so on. These items have been found in *high* numbers. Obviously offerings. So, maybe the crystal thing isn't too far off. Like I said stones etc. have been found in burial sites. ( Mainly as jewelry.. loose stone that have been carved into effigies(sp) have also been found.
I guess I am being redundant.. I just can not see the 'Fluffy' stuff happening during the Pre-Christian time periods.
Or maybe I am just a bit cracked?! LOL!

Angel, I'm not pickin' or anything.... OK? smile.gif

Jaxom!!!! Good to see ya!!!!!

Jax ! was wondering what happened to you Glad to see your back. care to share some of those other sites with us???



Bardy Boy,
well you make a very good point, we don't know what "Really" happened or how they did it, more then likely we are way off base. Though I am of the mind that it can not hurt to try. The heart is what matters. I'm not going to limit myself, I simply do what feels right for the circumstance.

I don't use many impliments in my rituals, mainly meditation, Incense, precious oils if I have them and a few candles for relaxation and of course some fantastic celtic music for low background mood noise. I do what ever it is I am gonna do and that's it,
well expect for when I am in the kitchen , but it is never a big production, I'm not in to Flamboint flare. besides the fact that with as often as people are here for dinner it is better off that they not know that as I have been making the meal I have blessed it in my own way. wink.gif

So yeah if I ever have any of you around my kitchen table (which I hope will happen) you will know that the food has been "Magicked" (giggles)

I don't believe that "FBW" happened back in the pre-christian era, I believe that "FBW" is what was created 50-60 years ago. The problem facing us as serious practioners is we have to weed out the trash from the treasures. It is definatly a learning experience. My sister-inlaw is now studying Wicca and Witchcraft and man, some of the concepts she has been learning are so far off base I am surprised that she isn't trying to do spells to cook her food!

Raven and I are trying to set her straight and so far she has listened to what we have told her and she continues to ask questions, which is good. She is now barrowing books from my library and getting a better understanding of things.

needless to say this has been a very very bad week for this family so I think a double shot of meditation is due for the weekend. I'll see ya'll later.

much love,
angel.gif

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 29-Apr-2004, 04:12 PM
Aaed,
I wear a dragon Pentacle and ring along with my amethyst and terquoise necklace (when it isn't broken)

I wear the Dragons because they are my familiars as a reminder and I just plain love them. the Amethyst I wear because it is my birthstone & the Turquoise I wear because I am 1/4 Cherokee Indian. all these things have personal meanings for me. That is why I wear them. they are person symbols for me and me alone.

yes, I actually talk to my dragons, it's better then telling some one that I talk to myself and I get a better reaction out of people that is just to die for in a laughing fit.

angel.gif

Posted by: Aaediwen 29-Apr-2004, 04:16 PM
At least sh'e leaning and you can set her streight =) GL

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 30-Apr-2004, 12:26 AM
QUOTE (Aaediwen @ Apr 29 2004, 05:16 PM)
At least sh'e leaning and you can set her streight =) GL

True enough, but we are having to unteach her all the crap that she has learned from people who don't "Know what they are talking about" . When she said that I just started laughing. I looked at her and made the comment "what makes you think that I know what I am talking about?" I think it all has to do with a persons perspectives and how they see things. Raven and I disagree on some parts of Paganism but we see different sides of the same coin.

Anyway I hope what I said about the symbols I use makes sense to you hun, I know it can get extremely confusing.

Posted by: barddas 30-Apr-2004, 07:49 AM
Angel, you shouldn't limit yerself to A B AND ONLY C.
For me I think it is in the simpicity of things. There is a certain amount of cerimonial magick in modern wiccan magick. At least that is where it's foundation seems to be.
Which is great! But for me, for someone to claim that this is what was happening in the time even as pagan practices were meshed with Christian, I find very hard to believe. And I guess I should REALLY clarify that I am speaking of British Ilse areas, and some of Western Europe.

Because in Egypt, even what was to be come the Americas those people used stones, and other items we have discussed on a regular basis. For medicine, magick, and so on.....

And I think that todays modern 'witchcraft' has infused many of these other cultures practices. To make a completely eclectic 'craft'. Which there is nothing wrong with. My problem is with author's claming this is 'true celtic magick', or 'norse magick' or what have you. If you read these books, it is obvious that they are taking Gradenerian method and applying regional gods to the supposed
'Celtic' practices.

Am I beating the horse to death?????? unsure.gif

Posted by: Aaediwen 30-Apr-2004, 05:53 PM
Angel, I started to ask this one way then realised you had already answered how I was writing it. So any items you use don't really have any connection with your ritual or practice, as being more personal items, right? Similar to my Quill, cloak, or class ring for example? Items that have symbolic meaning, but not religous/spiritual meaning. Right?


Posted by: Liriel Baenre Do'Urden 06-May-2004, 12:47 PM
I have been unable to find any belief that is in sync with my being. I always figured that my soul would tell me that this is the true path.

I guess I'm just going to have to wait a little longer. Or is the reason I can't find my path because several of my family members keeping throwing a certain belief or two into my vision and it is clouding everything.

Posted by: Aaediwen 06-May-2004, 03:31 PM
Possible that having a certain view shoved down your throat could hinder your quest, but that view too, is worth evaluating to see if it fits with you. If it doesn't than take it as it is, the belief of another, and keep looking to see what else is out there...

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 07-May-2004, 07:28 PM
QUOTE
Angel, I started to ask this one way then realised you had already answered how I was writing it. So any items you use don't really have any connection with your ritual or practice, as being more personal items, right? Similar to my Quill, cloak, or class ring for example? Items that have symbolic meaning, but not religous/spiritual meaning. Right?



Basically , yes, I wear these Items all the time, what could be more powerful then that when it is needed? I don't believe in this " Wear (insert name of Item here) ONLY when doing a Ritual!" I'm not in to all that garbage, there is nothing more powerful to use in a ritual then something that holds a heart felt meaning to you.
People may disagree with me on that but, that is how I see it. For what my beliefs are at the moment , because I am sure they will change, my symbols are directly in touch with my religious beliefs.

QUOTE
Angel, you shouldn't limit yerself to A B AND ONLY C.


I don't see how I am limiting myself to one or a few different things. I follow what is in my heart.

QUOTE
And I think that todays modern 'witchcraft' has infused many of these other cultures practices. To make a completely eclectic 'craft'. Which there is nothing wrong with.


it has to be with so many people looking at it from their own perspective.

QUOTE
My problem is with author's claming this is 'true celtic magick', or 'norse magick' or what have you. If you read these books, it is obvious that they are taking Gradenerian method and applying regional gods to the supposed
'Celtic' practices.


as I have said before, no one knows exactly what really happened back then so when they claim that it's the ACTUAL way things happened I tend to laugh. As for Gardenarian style, I know nothing about it nor do I wish to. I have never heard or read anything positive about the man.

Posted by: barddas 10-May-2004, 10:17 AM
QUOTE (Angel Whitefang (Rider) @ May 7 2004, 09:28 PM)



I don't see how I am limiting myself to one or a few different things. I follow what is in my heart.



it has to be with so many people looking at it from their own perspective.



As for Gardenarian style, I know nothing about it nor do I wish to. I have never heard or read anything positive about the man.

I think you have taken this the wrong way, deary. I was agreeing with you. It seems like you pull from many different areas. All, I was saying was That 'you' ( in the general sence) shouldn't limit yourself to A, B , C. Being a retorical statement.

If I remember correctly you had said you had studied or read.. ( idon't remember...LOL! wink.gif ) Buckland's Complete book of witchcraft.
"the big blue book'. That is 100% Gardinerian Wicca. Taught to Ray Buckland by Gardner himself. And 90% of ALL wicca books that have been written are based from his system.


I wasn't trying to pick a fight. I was agreeing with you. wink.gif
That's the trouble with text. no emotion......LA! smile.gif

Posted by: Shadows 10-May-2004, 01:29 PM
Crystals, charms, stones, ritual, wands, etc., are all superficial trappings of those who need "things" to do magick!

The only thing needed is the "Rule Of Three" and the knowledge of how to use those things in nature.... here is the crust of the bisquit.... that you have empowered ! The power is in us not things!

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 13-May-2004, 10:55 PM
QUOTE (barddas @ May 10 2004, 11:17 AM)

I think you have taken this the wrong way, deary. I was agreeing with you. It seems like you pull from many different areas. All, I was saying was That 'you' ( in the general sence) shouldn't limit yourself to A, B , C. Being a retorical statement.

If I remember correctly you had said you had studied or read.. ( idon't remember...LOL! wink.gif ) Buckland's Complete book of witchcraft.
"the big blue book'. That is 100% Gardinerian Wicca. Taught to Ray Buckland by Gardner himself. And 90% of ALL wicca books that have been written are based from his system.


I wasn't trying to pick a fight. I was agreeing with you. wink.gif
That's the trouble with text. no emotion......LA! smile.gif

oops, Sorry Bardy Bro hug.gifs I guess I did take it the wrong way.
I did not know that it was Gardinarian. Nor did I realize that what is being taught is Gardinarian. Shows how much attention I have been paying. I appreciate you pointing it out, I have not studied Uncle Bucky's big blue Book much, to be honest I have a problem keeping focused. I am usually reading 8-9 different books at one time. sorry again sweety. I ask forgiveness for my ignorance.

angel.gif

Posted by: barddas 14-May-2004, 06:22 AM
There is no reason to be sorry, Angel. It was a slight misunderstanding. Nothing more.

I will look up some information on, Alexandrian Wicca and post link to that info too. Alexandrian Wicca is a sect started by Alex Sanders. If anyone has read anything by the Farrar's that is Alexandrian. ( They wrote The Witches Bible And Eight Sabbats for witches.
Just for reference......

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 15-May-2004, 01:55 PM
That would be great! Thanks Bardy

Posted by: Lyra Luminara 30-May-2004, 09:39 PM
Faerie Magick is fun. I love working with them.

Posted by: barddas 01-Jun-2004, 10:05 AM
As promised-

The Alexandrian Tradition
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Alexandrian tradition of Wicca was established in the 1960s by Alex Sanders, and his wife Maxine. Originally Alex claimed to have been initiated by his grandmother when he was seven years old (reference, The King of the Witches by June Johns), but later admitted that this was untrue. In fact, he was initiated into a regular Gardnerian coven, by one of Patricia and Arnold Crowther's initiates, a lady by the name of Pat Kopanski.

When Alex began to publicise Wicca, he encountered strong opposition from more traditional members of the Craft. Some saw it as nothing more than a bid by Alex for personal notoriety; others that he was profaning a mystery. Whatever his motivation, the publicity certainly made people aware of his existence; he and Maxine initiated a great many people in the 1960s and 1970s, including Stewart Farrar and Janet Owen.

Janet and Stewart married, and over the past twenty odd years have published several books about Wicca. What Witches Do, published in 1971 (written during Stewart's first year as a witch), focuses completely upon the Alexandrian tradition, and remains the best guide to the way in which a typical Alexandrian coven operates. Rare, but perhaps still available in second hand shops, is a record of Janet's initiation, narrated by Stewart, called A Witch is Born, which also sheds some light on the traditional Alexandrian coven.

It is, of course, hard to quantify just what makes the essential "Alexandrian Tradition", as covens vary considerably, even within the same culture. I have yet to encounter two covens who work precisely the same way, even from the same line. Generally though, Alexandrian covens focus strongly upon training, which includes areas more generally associated with ceremonial magic, such as Qabalah, Angelic Magic, and Enochian. The typical Alexandrian coven has a hierarchical structure, and generally meets weekly, or at least on Full Moons, New Moons and Festivals.

Most Alexandrian covens will allow non-initiates to attend circles, usually as a "neophyte", who undergoes basic training in circle craft, and completes a number of projects, prior to being accepted by the coven for initiation to 1st degree. Some, though not all, Alexandrian covens will also welcome non-initiated "guests" at certain meetings. My own first experience of Wicca was as a guest of an Alexandrian coven.

Alexandrian Wicca uses essentially the same tools and rituals as Gardnerian Wicca, though in some cases, the tools are used differently, and the rituals have been adapted. Another frequent change is to be found in the names of deities and guardians of the quarters. In some ways these differences are merely cosmetic, but in others, there are fundamental differences in philosophy.

That said, over the last thirty years, the two traditions have moved slowly towards each other, and the differences which marked lines of demarcation are slowly fading away. Individual covens certainly continue to maintain different styles and working practices, but it is possible to speak today of "Wicca" encompassing both traditions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some Dates

* Alex and Maxine married and moved to London in 1967 (they were handfasted in 1965)
* "King of the Witches" by June Johns was published in 1969.
* Stewart Farrar met Alex and Maxine in 1969, when Stewart's publisher sent him to interview them for a magazine article. Stewart was initiated into their coven in London on 21 February 1970.
* "What Witches Do" by Stewart Farrar was published in 1971.
* Alex died in Sussex on 30 April 1988.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

More Information

Books which include information about Alex Sanders and the Alexandrian tradition:

* King of the Witches (June Johns)
* Maxine the Witch Queen (Maxine Sanders)
* What Witches Do (Stewart Farrar)
* The Rebirth of Witchcraft (Doreen Valiente)
http://www.cog.org/wicca/trads/alex.htm

Posted by: barddas 01-Jun-2004, 10:10 AM
http://www.meta-religion.com/Spiritualism/Wicca/alexandrian_wicca.htm

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 14-Jun-2004, 06:05 PM
Awsome!! Thanks Bardy hug.gif

Posted by: freekenny 18-Aug-2004, 06:05 PM
QUOTE (barddas @ 21-Apr-2004, 01:23 PM)
I know that we all come from many different back rounds, and beliefs. I was curious to see how we practice what we believe....

Is it in specific rituals.... everyday unconsious acts... both or more.....

Lets get the ball rolling in here again!;)

O'siyo,
'What do I do?'.. wink.gif My belief is no matter how you 'practice', believe, or live your life that if it is done with the purest of conscious, heart, soul and spirit then you are doing something right!~ rolleyes.gif
Being from a Native American background, I 'pray', meditate and give thanks to the Great Spirit, an entity 'greater' than us all and Master of all things created~ clap.gif
Faithfully, each morn and eve I send up smoke, burning of white sacred sage and other herbs in a shell while focusing positive energies on all that is in need...whether it be a person, animal, idea or event..I use fans made of feathers (all feathers are sacred to the Native Americans) to send the smoke to the 4 corners/directions so as to bless and give thanks for all that I am surrounded by..I also read my daily 'message' from my Cherokee Daily Meditations book.gif
I have a chimmenia in my backyard that I use to burn cedar, sage, herbs, personal belongings (such as hair for those in need of a healing) during the changing of the seasons~ sleep.gif and during the Soltices~
I plant different types/varieties of corn each season, aye, even in the cold winter ground, as well so to ask the Great Spirit for all that are in need...this is also an offering/way of giving thanks to Mother Earth and the Great Spirit..
Most of my 'rituals' are done as conscious acts but, often I catch myself in the backyard after picking up a feather praying to the Great Spirit..Being that we are naturally creatures of habit so many of my rituals are also done without second thought~ nerd.gif
~~May you be blessed with all that Mother Earth has to offer~~
~Sty-U red_bandana.gif

Posted by: Shadows 22-Aug-2004, 10:38 AM
I recieved an email some months back from my mother about a friend that was dying and has now passed. The person dying made the comment about old age not being golden, my reply and beliefs follow that statement. Here is the exchange:

Old age is not golden, it is brass and it turns green....

..... we all get older and our bodies wear out. Green is the sign of
mellowing and showing a patina... we look for this in our precious
possetions, so why not in our older folks. If you believe in what you
profess to believe, dying is the next step to the Creater. Do not be sorry
for your losses, but happy for the gain of those that go before the Creater.
Prayer can do wonders, but is it selflessness or selfishness that makes
us pray? What weighs the most?

Posted by: MacAibhistin 25-Aug-2004, 07:41 PM
Please forgive my ignorance on the subject, folks; but I have a few questions.

1. What does the word Wicca mean? When I look at it's structure it does not look like Gaelic or Cymric word, therefore I am not convinced that it is Celtic?

2. What is the central core of the Wicca beliefs and does it really correspond to what little we know about pre-Christian Celtic nature religion?

3. Where do the ideas behind modern pagan beliefs and practises come from and are they a continuation of old practises or something basically made up and new?

Thanks to whoever tries to help me in my confusion.

Rory MacA

Posted by: freekenny 25-Aug-2004, 10:42 PM
QUOTE (Shadows @ 22-Aug-2004, 11:38 AM)
Prayer can do wonders, but is it selflessness or selfishness that makes
us pray? What weighs the most?

O'siyo Shadows,
Hmmm according to the defintion of both words, selflessness= having no concern for self and, selfishness=concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others nerd.gif I honestly can say I don't 'pray' to achieve either angel_not.gif I 'pray' and meditate because I know there is 'something' greater than myself, Master Creator if you will that deserves a Ni Ya We (thank you) for all that I have been blessed with.. lookaround.gif I guess in some ways one could say I 'pray' because I owe it to the Great Spirit biggrin.gif In so many ways for me, 'prayer' is a respect 'thing'..
~~Sty-U red_bandana.gif

Posted by: Shadows 26-Aug-2004, 08:23 AM
That is meant to be keep in context with the complete statement, it is about death and not prayer alone.

Posted by: freekenny 26-Aug-2004, 01:22 PM
QUOTE (Shadows @ 26-Aug-2004, 09:23 AM)
That is meant to be keep in context with the complete statement, it is about death and not prayer alone.

O'siyo Shadows,
Hmmm, then forgive me for I must have misunderstood the question dontgetit.gif Guess I just answered a question(s) that I saw in your post..you seem to always stimulate one's mind and I enjoy responding to your posts biggrin.gif Guess I wouldn't know how to answer the question then because, if you are asking why one prays when close to death?, I can't, as of yet, answer that..or perhaps I am still 'confused' a bit about the question if there indeed was one unsure.gif
In any event I didn't mean to offend nor did I mean to take your post out of context so if I did, sorry oops.gif
~Hoping this day finds you with much peace and many blessings~
Sty-U red_bandana.gif

Posted by: Dreamer1 26-Aug-2004, 07:55 PM
QUOTE (MacAibhistin @ 25-Aug-2004, 09:41 PM)
Please forgive my ignorance on the subject, folks; but I have a few questions.

1.  What does the word Wicca mean?  When I look at it's structure it does not look like Gaelic or Cymric word, therefore I am not convinced that it is Celtic? 

2.  What is the central core of the Wicca beliefs and does it really correspond to what little we know about pre-Christian Celtic nature religion?

3.  Where do the ideas behind modern pagan beliefs and practises come from and are they a continuation of old practises or something basically made up and new?

Thanks to whoever tries to help me in my confusion.

Rory MacA

MacAibhistin,

Those are great questions! I think it would be best if you check out "The Book Stop" here in "Special Interests", and go to The Other Corner thread. Everyone's been recommending great books that will answer a lot of your questions, (and bring up some more), but that's the fun of it isn't it?

Hope this helps you! You're with friends here, who really want to help, so don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Dreamer1

Posted by: celticwoodsman 13-Sep-2004, 04:14 PM
Just joined this group so what a good way to introduce the topic of spirituality: For me everyday is a spiritual practice. Morning meditation, and evening meditation are daily "rituals" for me. Being blessed to have family in a Native American culture, as well as "Druidic" septs I have experienced more than some others. My wife and I practice the special pagan holidays that are celebrated in most pagan temples: Mabon, Beltaine....etc. I hope I can help on discussions in the spiritual sense being an armchair theologist/spiritualist, as well as a raised from birth "pagan" not a born-again "pagan"

Posted by: bubba 18-Sep-2004, 11:12 PM
I'm new here, but I'd like to put in my 2 cents about crystals, swords and knives. Crystals are, or should be, a personal focus device for meditation. The crystal itself has no meaning, but used as a focus can help in the same way a candal flame can. Swords and knives are more of a power symbol for groups with a leader. They serve pretty much the same function as any symbol weilded by a priest, minister or any other authority figure. Just my thoughts on the subject.

Posted by: Aaediwen 19-Sep-2004, 04:53 AM
QUOTE (MacAibhistin @ 25-Aug-2004, 08:41 PM)
Please forgive my ignorance on the subject, folks; but I have a few questions.

1. What does the word Wicca mean? When I look at it's structure it does not look like Gaelic or Cymric word, therefore I am not convinced that it is Celtic?

2. What is the central core of the Wicca beliefs and does it really correspond to what little we know about pre-Christian Celtic nature religion?

3. Where do the ideas behind modern pagan beliefs and practises come from and are they a continuation of old practises or something basically made up and new?

Thanks to whoever tries to help me in my confusion.

Rory MacA

Don't take me as an end-all authority on the subject, as I still don't drust my knowledge of the subject enough to truely practice it. However I got curious and began to study wicca, and here is some of what I have found as it pertains to your questions.

Wicca itself is not old. Probably not even a full hundred years old yet. However, it and other neo-pagan beliefs are an attempt to rejuvenate a lot of the old pre-Christian beliefs and truths which have been lost to time over the last two thousand years. The neo-druids would probably represent a closer mapping to what would have been practiced historically, however so much has been lost that nothing will likely ever be true to how they were.

To start to understand Wicca, I feel one should start, study, and end with the following 8 words:

"And ye harm none, do as ye will"

I perticularly like to pay attention to the use of the word 'none' there. It doesn't say 'no others', it says 'none', that includes not doing anything to harm yourself or any other being, be it physically, mentally, or spiritually.

The details beyond this phrase are what I seek to better understand now, myself. I feel I understand the basic symbolism behind such things as the pentacle and the athame, I guess that now I'm asking "What does it really mean to be Wiccan?"

Hopefully now others here can help both of us better answer our questions, although I wonder if that shouldn't become a new thread.

Posted by: bubba 19-Sep-2004, 07:19 AM
"And ye harm none, do as ye will" A most interesting phrase. It seems simple but really it isn't, in fact, it's probably more restrictive than the entire US penal code and requires far more personal responsibility. It calls for consideration of consequences before acting and living life in a much more deliberate manner than most people are used to. It demands a deep level of thought. If I do thus and so who will be affected and how. Will the balance be positive or negative. Decidedly not a simple philosophy to live by nor an easy one to live up to.

Posted by: Shadows 19-Sep-2004, 05:26 PM
But one that is truley fair to all existance, no one ever said it would be easy. Responsiblity, and deep thought... what can we be thinking... ?!?

Posted by: celticwoodsman 23-Sep-2004, 10:15 AM
QUOTE (Shadows @ 22-Aug-2004, 11:38 AM)
If you believe in what you profess to believe, dying is the next step to the Creater. Do not be sorry for your losses, but happy for the gain of those that go before the Creater.
Prayer can do wonders, but is it selflessness or selfishness that makes us pray? What weighs the most?

Great question Shadows, if I may add a personal lil story here, there have been a couple of times that i have been close to death...I know that I am far from "old" in terms of age, but one time that Iwas close to death isolated in the wilderness I know that in my own heart my prayers took a sense of spiritual awakening....eerily it became almost like what may be referred to as a "shamanic death" I guess becaus I am still here. But
in prayer it started as very selfish VERY selfish, a bargaining if you will that if I can only make it one more hour I promise that I will...as hours passed I felt overcome that mom and dad were both listening to me, and it became very selfless, over time my prayers evolved into a simple thank you. I do not know if weight can be assigned to it just because I feel that just like grief there is a natural progression from disbelief to acceptance.
In both experiences they followed the same patterns as that of the stages of grief: disbelief, bargaining, anger, and acceptance. There was a moment of panic in there somewhere, but I will not admit to that. I count my blessings that I am still alive, and I feel that this has made me closer to the Creator(s). I hope this aides your seeking in knowledge....

Posted by: bubba 23-Sep-2004, 11:04 AM
Coming close to death can have a profound effect. I had the experience in Nam. I don't recall much of anything after I was hit until I came around in the hospital. I was left with the feeling that I'd wasted so much of my life to that point in selfishness. To say the least, I was a very different person afterwards. Was I touched by the Creator? I can't say with any certainty. I do know I got a second chance and I've tried not to waste it. That was when I realized faith and religion are not the same thing and my priorities changed drastically and I started trying to think what effects my actions and nonactions have on others.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 24-Sep-2004, 09:26 AM
I have much respect for any vet, especially when mom or dad basically slap them and say, "Fool you missed the point, are you listening now." My grandfather was in WWII and he has a lot of stories of close to death...which the funny part is that he only tells me, but anyways he is a Catholic, but let me tell you he prays everyday with the most selflessness I have ever seen....I think he should be a saint.

Posted by: bubba 24-Sep-2004, 10:42 AM
I had an Uncle that was a Ranger in WW II in the Pacific. He was shot near to pieces and lived with alot of metal in him the rest of his life. His faith was unshakable and he was the kindest man I ever knew in spite of being in constant pain. When he died he honored me greatly. He left me his combat infantry badge and Ranger patch. Along with these in the box was a simple note. All it said was "You've been there, you understand".

Posted by: celticwoodsman 27-Sep-2004, 07:30 AM
Now that it is fall, I end up spending a lot of my weekends in the woods just going for hikes, and I have to say that this is the best time of year to recharge my spiritual battery. 2 years ago a bunch of friends and I walked up a mt. in the Adirondiak park called Iriquois, and since it is not a very technical hike we packed a couple small drums, a pack guitar, tin whistle, and some other small instruments. The greatest spiritual experience of that year was sitting above all the fall foliage, looking down, jamming out some reels and a couple of jigs, just being filled with spirit. I do not know if people on some of the other summits could hear it, but just the thought of music flowing down the mountain...what a feeling. That is the typical practice I like to experience this time of year.

Posted by: Sėmeag 27-Feb-2009, 03:19 PM
I honour my gods, respect the genius loci and acknowledge my ancestors with offerings, as and when required; I honour the four fire festivals traditionally, and I undertake a personal ritual at the winter and summer solstice; I read as much as I can on history, archaeology, folklore, myth, anthropology and anything else that will illuminate the beliefs of my ancestors and the ancestors of the land on which I live; I regularly undertake meditation and journeywork; I communicate with other on my path and share information (UPG) in order to build on what we already know.

Daily, everything I do, and think is shaped by my beliefs.

Posted by: Sėmeag 27-Feb-2009, 03:21 PM
Since I cannot edit, I will add here that I also spend time learning about the native flora, fauna and landscapes of these Isles in order to connect on a deeper level with the spirits of place.

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