"tookie" Williams, your thoughts
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Senara |
Posted on 12-Dec-2005, 11:43 AM
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Musican/Ruler of the Dells/Warrior
Group: Ireland
Posts: 1,134
Joined: 03-Nov-2005
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Realm: Caer Portshire, Mist Hollow
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Good topic Dundee... He was found by a jury to be guilty of the crimes he says he is innocent of...let him fry! If he was innocent then we wouldn't be waiting for the governator to grant clemency. What really irks me about the whole capital punishment thing is the fact that criminals such as Tookie sit waiting for 20 years (or more) for the needle. That's 20 years worth of taxpayer money wasted in BS legal arguments, housing, food etc. There needs to be a way to speed up the process a bit. I've heard that the death penalty was brought back in most parts of the US as a deterrent for crime. How much of a deterrent is it for free room and board and no taxes due for 20 years? Ya the downside is you don't get to collect your retirement income but still. The criminals spend too much time waiting for their punishment to be carried out.
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SCShamrock |
Posted on 13-Dec-2005, 06:57 AM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: Celtic Nation
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I posted the following reply in my own thread titled "He changed his life" in the Polotics Live Online forum.
The execution has been carried out. A murderer has received just punishment. Any family members of the slain at his hands can now rest knowing that their fallen loved ones are not gone while their killer lives. That said....it is my firmly held belief that if Tookie did indeed acknowledged the God of creation, and did indeed accept the saving message of Jesus' death on the cross, that the same blood shed by Jesus to save me has also save Tookie. That now, although he has suffered death at the hands of man, his debt is paid in full, and his soul will forever remain with his God and his savior. As the apostle Paul said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."
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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859
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gaberlunzie |
Posted on 13-Dec-2005, 09:52 AM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: Celtic Nation
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QUOTE (Emmet @ 13-Dec-2005, 07:57 AM) | In a society where one man with virtually unlimited resources can afford to mount a lavish defense like O.J. Simpson, while another with no resources gets an overworked burnt-out "meet 'em n' plead 'em" somnolent Public Defender who couldn't vindicate Mother Teresa, I don't see how anyone can argue that this represents de facto equal protection under the law; regardless of intent, in practice the rich are clearly more equal than others. If the death penalty in it's application doesn't meet the standard of the equal protection clause of the US Constitution, the inescapable prima facie conclusion is that within the context of it's current application it is in effect unconstitutional. |
I think this is a very important point you made, Emmet. I second that. No matter if I'm for or against death penalty...these are my thoughts and "objections", too.
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Emmet |
Posted on 15-Dec-2005, 10:07 PM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: Ireland
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QUOTE | "the media and hollywood have inundated the public with convicted multiple murder and co-founder of the "crips" stanley "tookie" williams cry for clemency ... tonight at midnight he is scheduled for execution. what do you think?" |
As near as I can gather from multiple news sources, (including AP: i.e, "newspapers"), there were three predominant arguments in favor of clemency; 1) the death penalty is wrong (barbaric, arbitrary, etc) 2) Williams is innocent, 3) Williams is "reformed"; particularly, a born-again Christian. I addressed a post on this topic to argument #1. Argument #2 I ignored as profoundly unlikely. Williams was found guilty and lost all appeals. Argument #3 was addressed by posts by several people, including one by SCShamrock, supported by Biblical citations, none of whom were ridiculed or insulted as a result. As his professed faith in Christ was considered at issue by both his supporters and several here who still wanted him executed regardless of religious conversion, I fail to see how questioning whether or not a death-row conversion to something other than Christianity would result in the same "inundation by the media" is either appealing to "emotions rather than to reason", or how SCShamrock's sneering and explicitly calling me a liar and stupid can in any way be described as anything else but a personal attack entirely independent of the topic at hand. If he has anything intelligent to say, then by all means he should try to do so. However, if the most substantive contribution he can make to a conversation is juvenile insults, then he should crawl back under his rock with the rest of the brown shirts, white hoods, and drooling dimwits and stop trying to pollute the rest of this site into the same toxic neo-Fascist cesspool that they've made of the 'Politics' forum.
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