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> Losing Our Sovereignty?, Copenhagen conssessions
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ladywolf 
Posted: 08-Dec-2009, 11:41 AM
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Obama Poised to Cede US Sovereignty in Copenhagen, Claims British Lord Monckton

The Minnesota Free Market Institute hosted an event at Bethel University in St. Paul on Wednesday evening. Keynote speaker Lord Christopher Monckton, former science adviser to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, gave a scathing and lengthy presentation, complete with detailed charts, graphs, facts, and figures which culminated in the utter decimation of both the pop culture concept of global warming and the credible threat of any significant anthropomorphic climate change.

A detailed summary of Monckton’s presentation will be available here once compiled. However, a segment of his remarks justify immediate publication. If credible, the concern Monckton speaks to may well prove the single most important issue facing the American nation, bigger than health care, bigger than cap and trade, and worth every citizen’s focused attention.

Here were Monckton’s closing remarks, as dictated from my audio recording:

At [the 2009 United Nations Climate Change Conference in] Copenhagen, this December, weeks away, a treaty will be signed. Your president will sign it. Most of the third world countries will sign it, because they think they’re going to get money out of it. Most of the left-wing regime from the European Union will rubber stamp it. Virtually nobody won’t sign it.

I read that treaty. And what it says is this, that a world government is going to be created. The word “government” actually appears as the first of three purposes of the new entity. The second purpose is the transfer of wealth from the countries of the West to third world countries, in satisfication of what is called, coyly, “climate debt” – because we’ve been burning CO2 and they haven’t. We’ve been screwing up the climate and they haven’t. And the third purpose of this new entity, this government, is enforcement.

How many of you think that the word “election” or “democracy” or “vote” or “ballot” occurs anywhere in the 200 pages of that treaty? Quite right, it doesn’t appear once. So, at last, the communists who piled out of the Berlin Wall and into the environmental movement, who took over Greenpeace so that my friends who funded it left within a year, because [the communists] captured it – Now the apotheosis as at hand. They are about to impose a communist world government on the world. You have a president who has very strong sympathies with that point of view. He’s going to sign it. He’ll sign anything. He’s a Nobel Peace Prize [winner]; of course he’ll sign it.

[laughter]

And the trouble is this; if that treaty is signed, if your Constitution says that it takes precedence over your Constitution (sic), and you can’t resign from that treaty unless you get agreement from all the other state parties – And because you’ll be the biggest paying country, they’re not going to let you out of it.

So, thank you, America. You were the beacon of freedom to the world. It is a privilege merely to stand on this soil of freedom while it is still free. But, in the next few weeks, unless you stop it, your president will sign your freedom, your democracy, and your humanity away forever. And neither you nor any subsequent government you may elect will have any power whatsoever to take it back. That is how serious it is. I’ve read the treaty. I’ve seen this stuff about [world] government and climate debt and enforcement. They are going to do this to you whether you like it or not.

But I think it is here, here in your great nation, which I so love and I so admire – it is here that perhaps, at this eleventh hour, at the fifty-ninth minute and fifty-ninth second, you will rise up and you will stop your president from signing that dreadful treaty, that purposeless treaty. For there is no problem with climate and, even if there were, an economic treaty does nothing to [help] it.

So I end by saying to you the words that Winston Churchill addressed to your president in the darkest hour before the dawn of freedom in the Second World War. He quoted from your great poet Longfellow:

Sail on, O Ship of State!
Sail on, O Union, strong and great!
Humanity with all its fears,
With all the hopes of future years,
Is hanging breathless on thy fate!


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Camac
Posted: 09-Dec-2009, 10:36 AM
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If I might'

Add to the fact that Monkton is English and a Thatcherite ( and we all know that she thought she was god incarnate) Conservative and is so far to the Right that if he trips on his shoelace he'd be a Facists. He even admits that since taking up the Global Warming issue he has become very wealthy I for one wouldn't believe any of the rubbish that he spouts. He also is a fear mongerer. I don't know a damn thing about the science behind all this falderal, I don't know if its a man made problem or if its is cyclical. What I do know is the climate is changing. Here in Ontario we just had the first snowless November since records started being kept. I know the Arctic ice sheet is retreating, I know we have hat the hottest summer on record and I know that when we do have storms they are pretty bad. I also know that pumping all those greenhouse gases and pollution into the atmosphere and inviroment isn't helping the situation. It does seem somewhat logical that we do something about it. As to giving up sovereignty I doubt that will happen. The planet is not ready for a world government and it won't come about because of some treaty signed in Denmark. Who the hell is going to enforce it. We can't even agree to get rid of the radical muslims so how are we going to agree to a world government. NATO is a joke and the U.N. hides its head in the sand when ever there is a major crisis.


Camac.

PS. He is a Viscount, the second lowest peerage just above a Baron and he inherited the title from his Father. He ran for a seat in the House of Lords and lost.
               
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Patch 
Posted: 09-Dec-2009, 12:06 PM
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Camac;

In part I agree with you but for several points. Never underestimate the devious mind of obama as he is a power hungry narcissist with a basket of other flaws. He is as dangerous to you as to us.

Climate change has been the norm for this planet since the beginning of known time. Other than astronomical disasters the mammals, reptiles, birds, insects and water creatures have all survived with few exceptions. We humans survived at least one major ice age and global warming with nothing but our feet to move us to more hospitable climes. Fossils of creatures that lived in the sea are found far inland where it is hard to imagine that seas ever existed. All that ice had to raise the level of our seas when it melted. I believe there is a specific amount of water here and has been since the beginning of time. At times it has been liquid and at times solid. It can be in our atmosphere as humidity and clouds or in rivers lakes and oceans or it can be under ground. It can all be accounted for at any given time. Global warming would likely make it easier for developing countries to feed themselves.

This year we are dealing with an unusual "el ninio" pattern that is predicted to moderate our winters (yours included). They did have snow in Texas in November this year. Global warming?

We humans have gone through bottlenecks in our history and probably we will do so again. If it is due to our making it will be nuclear winter for 50 or so years, thus another ice age. If nature is the cause it will likely be an asteroid or for your country and mine the eruption of the caldera volcano in Yellowstone park. We have been able to measure surface changes since the advent of satellites and unfortunately the land inside the caldera has risen nearly 4 feet since they started measuring. Tourist areas have been changed due to changes in the geysers and hot pools which have inundated the walk ways and changed their activity patterns. This volcano is about 50 thousand years past its historic eruption cycle. That catastrophe over shadows global warming by far and WILL hurt humans sooner than will global warming. There is no money in exploiting that one though.

As a civilization we are now so populous that were on a path to destruction. Come hell or "high water" we WILL succeed in accomplishing that end!!

Slàinte,    

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stevenpd 
Posted: 09-Dec-2009, 02:08 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 09-Dec-2009, 07:36 AM)
If I might'

Add to the fact that Monkton is English and a Thatcherite ( and we all know that she thought she was god incarnate) Conservative and is so far to the Right that if he trips on his shoelace he'd be a Facists. He even admits that since taking up the Global Warming issue he has become very wealthy I for one wouldn't believe any of the rubbish that he spouts. He also is a fear mongerer. I don't know a damn thing about the science behind all this falderal, I don't know if its a man made problem or if its is cyclical. What I do know is the climate is changing. Here in Ontario we just had the first snowless November since records started being kept. I know the Arctic ice sheet is retreating, I know we have hat the hottest summer on record and I know that when we do have storms they are pretty bad. I also know that pumping all those greenhouse gases and pollution into the atmosphere and inviroment isn't helping the situation. It does seem somewhat logical that we do something about it. As to giving up sovereignty I doubt that will happen. The planet is not ready for a world government and it won't come about because of some treaty signed in Denmark. Who the hell is going to enforce it. We can't even agree to get rid of the radical muslims  so how are we going to agree to a world government. NATO is a joke and the U.N. hides its head in the sand when ever there is a major crisis.


Camac.

PS. He is a Viscount, the second lowest peerage just above a Baron and he inherited the title from his Father. He ran for a seat in the House of Lords and lost.

Camac,

The issue of climate change is still in dispute, either way. If you consider western civilization's history one has to wonder the impact of the industrial revolution of the early 20th century. With the total lack of science of the environment and no protections in place what impact there was from that period alone.

Regardless, waters were cleaned up and air quality improved. New methods of harvesting natural resources have lessened environmental damage, not eliminated it but lessened it. Does this mean we ignore it all? Not at all. We do need to be careful of the law of unintended consequences though. It is not nice to fool with mother nature. She has been around for a lot longer than man.

Yes, weather patterns have been a little erratic lately. As far as I know, no scientist can conclusively prove that it is or is not because of human activity. Even the Climate Change proponents point to cattle emitting too much methane. That is the reason for the skepticism, the scientist just don't know. If they do not know, then how can they prove something that does not exist? If they do know, then why can't they predict with a certain level of accuracy, future weather patterns. I'm sure New Orleans would have liked a little advanced warning.

Some other scientists have indicated a correlation between sun spots and Earth's weather. If this is the case, how does anyone control that? Bottom line is this, the Climate Change people are trying to gain power through faulty science and ignorance. Their science is inconclusive and there are people that prefer to remain ignorant and leave it up to someone else to make a decision.

Monckton may be making money at it but what about Gore? There is enough to go around.

A few quotes here:

To everything there is a season. - Ecclesiastes 3:1

Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each. - Henry David Thoreau (1817 - 1862)

All human situations have their inconveniences. We feel those of the present but neither see nor feel those of the future; and hence we often make troublesome changes without amendment, and frequently for the worse. - Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)







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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 09-Dec-2009, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (stevenpd @ 09-Dec-2009, 02:08 PM)
Yes, weather patterns have been a little erratic lately. As far as I know, no scientist can conclusively prove that it is or is not because of human activity. Even the Climate Change proponents point to cattle emitting too much methane. That is the reason for the skepticism, the scientist just don't know. If they do not know, then how can they prove something that does not exist? If they do know, then why can't they predict with a certain level of accuracy, future weather patterns. I'm sure New Orleans would have liked a little advanced warning.

Some other scientists have indicated a correlation between sun spots and Earth's weather. If this is the case, how does anyone control that? Bottom line is this, the Climate Change people are trying to gain power through faulty science and ignorance. Their science is inconclusive and there are people that prefer to remain ignorant and leave it up to someone else to make a decision.

The problem with this whole Climate Change BS is that the scientists, politicians, and global corporations that have something to gain by civilization proceeding down this path they have planned for us is that they are continually (and I believe intentionally) confusing Micro changes in climate (better referred to as "Weather") and Macro Climate Change (which needs to be viewed in periods of centuries, if not thousands of years, not in years, decades or a single century). Contrary to the "Lamestream" press reports that it is settled science that man is the cause of all recent Climate Change there is no such thing as consensus on this in the Scientific world.

Here's some "Change You Can Believe In":

No matter what the current weather conditions are where you are they are going to change (minutely or noticeably) in the next hours, days or weeks. (PS: and all the scientists in the world cannot predict to a certainty what is going to happen with your weather in the next few days, let alone what is going to happen to the world's climate over the next years, decades, or centuries)


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Patch 
Posted: 09-Dec-2009, 05:27 PM
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The temp. here just dropped 20 degrees and I do not fear a coming ice age. You are right on in that they can not do an accurate 5/10 day forecast let alone further. Maybe they should consult the farmers almanac.

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wdorholt 
Posted: 10-Dec-2009, 03:20 AM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 06-Dec-2009, 09:32 AM)
wdorholt;

The proper protocol or etiquette when meeting Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is for men to bow their heads biefly and women to make a shallow curtsie. When in conversation with her she is addressed as Ma'am. One does not touch the Queen except when shaking her hand. From the news clip I watched of the Obama's meeting her neither of them followed this protocol except to shake her hand and say Your Majesty.


Camac.

Camac,

Thanks for the info. I was not making a comment about how well Obama followed protocol with various leaders. I was trying to find out what Patch meant when he said that Obama was unpatriotic because of his "crotch salutes." I thought he meant his deep bows. Evidently there is another meaning that I don't think I yet understand or have seen Obama exhibit as Patch has.

It doesn't appear to matter anyway, as it seems that the folks posting here have decided that Obama name calling, ( wanker, inept, dipstick, dangerous, unpatriotic, schmuck, idiot, etc.) suffices to prove their point. Which is too bad, as I think that nothing is learned when this is done, regardless of who is the target of the name calling.


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Jillian 
Posted: 10-Dec-2009, 06:49 AM
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wdorholt,

The name calling tends to result when the frustration level exceeds the ability to further put this sense of helplessness and hopelessness into linguistic expression! It reminds me of the "W" years when this forum resulted in "shrub"and other not so nice names! I hear ya though...(I'm trying to recall if I've ever called him a name in my posts!)...wouldn't it be nice if we could find a Prez that didn't result in such partisan feelings?

I wonder who that would be....hmmm...if both sides could through out names of people they could live with as Prez, maybe we could find the common denominator and vote him or her in! I personally still like Condileeza Rice!

Jillian


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Camac
Posted: 10-Dec-2009, 08:38 AM
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Jillian;

Since the election here that gave the conservatives their minority government it has been the most acrimonious Parliament on record. Harper and his people are really mean spirited conservatives who seem to relish in playing dirty politics. We also revert at times to calling our political leaders names but for some reason they seem to be a bit more polite. The previous leader of the Liberal party was call "Professor" but it wasn't meant as a term of endearment. He was far to cerebral to be the head of a political party. Also he had a pretty heavy Quebec accent that caused him a lot of trouble when he spoke english for which he was ridiculed. Jean Chretien when he ran for PM had a speech impediment that caused him to talk out of the side of his mouth and the conservatives ran some pretty nasty campaign adds that they were forced to withdraw by Elections Canada. Mostly he was call "Dat guy from Shawinigan" I remember my Dad telling me that name calling was the last resort of the ignorant, but, then we all do it when we become frustrated. As for the "crotch salute" , look at it in this vein, it use to be the position of the hands when the military stood at ease.


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Patch 
Posted: 10-Dec-2009, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 04-Dec-2009, 10:23 AM)
The glaring example of his lack of patriotism is his "crotch salute" which he performs when others are placing their hand over their heart or saluting to honor our flag. He stands with both hands firmly in his crotch.

As to a shadow president, that is coming from people working in DC.

I do not consider myself overly smart, just well connected politically and other wise.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

This explains my earlier answer to your question. A number of pictures exist depicting this action on obama's part. An astute leader would make sure he was photographed acting appropriately even if it was not his belief.

If you really are interested, you can locate the pictures.


Slàinte,    

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Camac
Posted: 10-Dec-2009, 10:49 AM
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Patch;

I also do not consider myself overly smart. I do not have political connection or for that matter any other connections. What you hear and see is what you get. I don't give a damn about what people think of me or my politics, and beliefs. I try desperately to accept people the way they are and always give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that's why my ex took advantage of me for years. What the Hey. As to politicians well they are all cut from the same cloth, arrogant, conceited, and narcisistic, plus a streak of larceny. They are after all our elected representatives and you either love them or hate them, no sense getting paranoid over them. They are a product of the Me generation and the world revolves around their wants and needs. If Obama is such a lousy President then vote him out in 4 years or hope he screws up enough to impeach him. Fortunately under our system the PM is also the head of his party and the party can call a performance review on his leadership and if he is found wanting he's out and someone else is appointed in the interum until the next party convention.


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stevenpd 
Posted: 10-Dec-2009, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE (wdorholt @ 10-Dec-2009, 12:20 AM)
It doesn't appear to matter anyway, as it seems that the folks posting here have decided that Obama name calling, ( wanker, inept, dipstick, dangerous, unpatriotic, schmuck, idiot, etc.) suffices to prove their point. Which is too bad, as I think that nothing is learned when this is done, regardless of who is the target of the name calling.

wdorholt,

In general, I will agree with you that name calling is unproductive. Some of the terms you have identified are uncalled for because they do not necessarily promote dialog. Terms like wanker, dipstick, schmuck, idiot, etc. do not but the terms inept, dangerous, and unpatriotic do. As they are used as adjectives describing a certain perspective I don't see this as name calling in a derogatory sense. Yes, they have a negative connotation but hardly rise to the level detracting from a dialog.
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Patch 
Posted: 10-Dec-2009, 02:33 PM
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The term "dangerous wanker" came from the UK and is how the British/Scottish people for the most part feel about him. "Wanker" is not an American term.

Slàinte,    

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CelticSpecter 
Posted: 10-Dec-2009, 10:47 PM
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No matter how you want to sweet talk it, he is still incompetent. Sometimes colorful language is all you have left. With the bozo doing what he is doing, there won't be anything left of this country sooner than later.

I call 'em as I see 'em and if anybody has a problem with that then it is their problem, not mine. All you have to do is watch him.
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Patch 
Posted: 11-Dec-2009, 04:03 AM
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I had hoped early on that his actions were due to the fact that he had neither military or business experience and not a "plan" to dismantle our way of life. When representatives and senators reply to constituents concerns with generic form letters and the administration ignores the will of the people frustration does exactly as it did under bush. Now the democrats are whining.

Slàinte,    

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