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Celtic Radio Community > Kirk and Chapel > The Passion Of The Christ


Posted by: CelticRose 12-Mar-2004, 12:35 AM
Would love to know who saw this movie and what your opinions are!

Posted by: Elspeth 12-Mar-2004, 05:11 AM
I thought of asking that very same question! Great minds think alike.

It was pretty much what I expected. Powerful and at times unwatchable. It is powerful to have a visual image of Christ's voluntary suffering. It is so easy to think of Christ as walking 6 inches above the ground. Never really getting dirty, not feeling things the same way we do, after all He is the Son of God. Seeing the visual helps dispel that image.

I did have some artistic questions. I liked the personification of evil in the devil being with him in the garden. I never really thought of that time as a temptation and it was interesting to see it portrayed that way. I do want to know the symbolism of the evil baby in the arms of the devil when Christ was being flogged. Some things have been suggested to me. I wonder what you all think.

And I was very glad they ended with the Rssurection. smile.gif

Posted by: stevenpd 12-Mar-2004, 10:03 AM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Mar 12 2004, 03:11 AM)
I did have some artistic questions. I liked the personification of evil in the devil being with him in the garden. I never really thought of that time as a temptation and it was interesting to see it portrayed that way. I do want to know the symbolism of the evil baby in the arms of the devil when Christ was being flogged. Some things have been suggested to me. I wonder what you all think.

A very moving film. It certainly brought the last hours of Christ to life and provided flesh to the esoteric.

Could the baby be the personification of the of indifference? Christ's life, death and subsequent reserrection effectively ended confusion about God's desire for anyone that hears the message. Christ's life was entirely about a positive faith, a faith that could move mountains. And he paid for that ultimate example of faith with his life.

Posted by: shamalama 13-Mar-2004, 06:11 PM
This was one of the most powerful two hours, and certainly the most soul-touching events I can remember.

Sometimes just reading from the Bible the words get "dry". But to be able to see it, even through Mel's eyes, made it more real, if just for a few hours.


Posted by: tsargent62 13-Mar-2004, 07:16 PM
I'm aching to see this film. I hope to see it soon.

Posted by: CelticRose 13-Mar-2004, 07:21 PM
Todd! I have not seen it either. It is very hard for me to go to the theatre as I hate going so much, but that is no excuse! I really need to go see it. However, I have a feeling it will be out on DVD very soon and that's when I plan to see it over and over!

Posted by: tsargent62 13-Mar-2004, 08:13 PM
I get the feeling that to get the full impact of this film you need to see it in the theatre. Why do you hate going so much?

Posted by: CelticRose 13-Mar-2004, 08:38 PM
Todd! I have a back problem that causes me pain to sit in those chairs, but that is a poor excuse. I hate that I always get some tall fat head sitting in front of me. I hate it that people sitting behind me are talking and I am trying hard enough to get the full magnitude of what is being said.............enough excuses? rolleyes.gif smile.gif

Posted by: Arianrhod 13-Mar-2004, 08:59 PM
After seeing a picture in the New York Times, from the film..
I honestly don't think I could sit thru this film...
Eight years of Catholic School, the Stations of the Cross..
Bible Study ..
None of this prepared me for the image I saw that day...
I felt as if I were physicaly struck !

Even with what I do for a living.. that picture shook me to my bones..

I hope someone can share this movie with me here..
I do want to know how it is ...and I hope it brings Love and Peace ..
as opposed to all the Anti-Semite comments ...
That has been a large topic at work, since the movie came out..

In Service to the Dream,
Paula



Posted by: CelticRose 13-Mar-2004, 10:28 PM
Paula! I spent 25 years of my life being a Catholic! Besides all my other excuses, I have a problem with seeing graphically My Savior being being smitten and beaten on screen. The Bible itself is horrific enough on that event. I will definitely see it, but most likely in my own home where I can ball my eyes out in privacy..............as chicken as that may sound.

Posted by: Annabelle 13-Mar-2004, 10:52 PM
Hey you do what's best for you. If you need the privacy then do it.

I myself feel a great desire to see this movie no matter where it is shown at.
What ever I endure during this film will in no way be sizable in comparison for what he did for me.

I have never felt worthy of his love. I know I am going to feel even more unworthy of his forgiveness once I see this film.

A

Posted by: CelticRose 13-Mar-2004, 11:14 PM
Thank you Annabelle! You are the only one who has told me that. Everybody else keeps telling me I need to see it on big screen, but I just feel that where ever I see it..........big screen or in my home.............it is going to have a major impact on me, no matter what!

Posted by: andylucy 14-Mar-2004, 06:41 AM
I finally, FINALLY, got to see The Passion. Let me tell you, it won't matter a whit whether you see it on the big screen or not. It is a powerful piece of cinema, whether you see it in the theater or on TV. It is the message that stirs, just as much as the visuals.

I cannot remember the last time I cried at a movie. I'm not sure if I ever have. I sure did during this one. To see the scourging (by my watch, the actual lashing lasted 11 minutes) and know that He did that for me, and how little I deserve it, it just got to me. I had a strong urge to get to Confession.

To see the crown of thorns jammed onto His head. To see the ridicule and mocking and abuse He suffered.

To see the agony that Mary went through, watching her Son tortured and killed, it tore at my heart. It really gives new meaning to the Sorrowful mysteries of the Rosary.

To see the crucifixion, to see the nails driven into His hands. To see the nails driven into His feet. To see the blood dripping from His torn body. To see the love that Jim Caviezel was able to portray, with one eye, through all the blood make-up, the portrayal of Christ's love for all of us, it pierced my heart like a spear.

I tried to remain somewhat clinical during this movie, to examine it theologically. It was impossible for me to do this. The movie was theologically sound, but this assessment is based on my gut reaction to the film, not to any intellectual analysis on my part. I'm not sure if any believing Christian could remain clinically aloof during this movie.

The final scene, at the Resurrection. It was so subtle, but so hope filled.

All I can say otherwise is, Wow. thumbs_up.gif

Just my tuppence.

Andy

Posted by: Elspeth 14-Mar-2004, 07:06 AM
Rose, by all means, see it where it is comfortable for you, if comfortable is a word that can be used in connection with this movie.

I will share with you our experience and what others told me as well. No one makes a sound the entire movie. And when it is over people just sit there, soundless.

I will be one of those annoying people who advocate the big screen experience. In part because to sit in the darkened room with others was simultaniously a very private and personal experience as well as a fellowship one. But if you can't see or your back hurts, it wil detract you from the film so definately do what you need to do.

Paula, any questions you have - just ask. I didn't read or listen to any of the pre-movie hype. I wanted to see it as fresh as possible.

I can only say it is an experience. One I have to image is as personal as is faith. I did not find it to be anti-Semitic. That would mean it showed all Jews in a bad light. It only showed some, not all, of the Pharisees that way.

It did potray the evil that is part of human nature. But the message of Love and Salvation so conquers that all that it is no more than a prop for Jesus to play against.



Posted by: Raven 14-Mar-2004, 07:49 AM
I have never really be one to go see a movie because it is on the big screen and have never felt that the experience was so much better than seeing a movie at home (that's just me wink.gif ) I fully intend to see this movie when it comes out in DVD and have further strengthened my resolve as both my sisters and everyone that I work with has insisted that I have to see it in the theater. (I don't like people trying to bully be into doing things) tongue.gif I do realize that they are just enthusiastic, and this is not the first time any of them have done this but certainly the most persistant.

Peace

Mikel

Posted by: Arianrhod 14-Mar-2004, 08:03 AM
Much love for all of you for the DVD Experince....
I think I would have to have the choice to take a break ...
to get thru this telling of Christs' Story ..

I am a private person about my faith..
and tho I call myself a "recovering" Catholic..
I grew UP on that faith, and it shaped who I am today !

I know I will more than likey cry my eyes out ...
rather do that at home ..

Great support here !
Thanks all of you ..

In Service to the Dream,
Paula

Posted by: CelticRose 14-Mar-2004, 05:10 PM
Well, you all are not going to believe where I just came home from? The movie theatre to see The Passion of the Christ! Yep, you read right.

Wow! Words cannot describe! My back hurt, but hey! I sat through 3-1/2 hours of ROTK, so I thought 2 hours is not going to kill me. But I do wish I could have been home to sob my eyes out. Like AndyLucy said, no matter where you see it it is going to affect you, especially if you are a believer. It was soooooooo powerful and emotional! I started crying at the very first scene when the scripture showed up! And all that beating and scouraging just seemed like it went on forever! I thought it would never stop. This is why I have had my hesitancy about seeing it on the big screen. Well Mel Gibson and Jim Cavaziel did an outstanding job in presenting the visual of what we read in the Bible of what Christ went through. Both of them definitely deserve an Oscar! The part I did appreciate seeing was the relationship between Jesus and his mother. That to me was so incredibly moving as well.

I have a question though. What do you think the scene with Satan and the baby represented while Jesus was being flogged? I was a bit confused about that part.

Posted by: CelticRose 14-Mar-2004, 06:07 PM
Oh forgot to add! That was the most quiet experience I have ever had being inside the theatre! There wasn't a single peep and I had a great seat with no tall person sitting in front of me either!

Posted by: Elspeth 15-Mar-2004, 05:28 AM
Rose,

I'm glad you saw it. And that scene as well bothered me, because I knew Mel was trying to say something there and I just didn't get it. My sister told me a possible scriptural reference but I forgot exactly what it was. I'll have to ask her.

Wonder when it will be out on dvd.

Posted by: CelticRose 15-Mar-2004, 05:57 AM
Well, I wonder too what that all meant. Anxious to hear others thoughts and interpretations.

I bet it will be out on DVD soon! I plan to buy it and then I can boo hoo my eyes out all I want! Not sure if hubby wants to see it again though. He was a bit bothered by all the brutality, even though it was scriptural. he wasn't as impressed with the film as I was.

Posted by: andylucy 17-Mar-2004, 04:45 AM
On the Feast Day of Saint Patrick

QUOTE (CelticRose @ Mar 14 2004, 05:10 PM)
I have a question though. What do you think the scene with Satan and the baby represented while Jesus was being flogged?  I was a bit confused about that part.

In one of the interviews about the movie (I am sorry, but I don't remember which one, but I THINK it was the second one that Raymond Arroyo of EWTN did) Gibson stated that he was trying to portray the dictum that Satan is the "great ape of God." In other words, it was Satan's mocking attempt at the "Madonna and Child" tableau that was reaching its final act in the crucifixion. Mary was there with her Son, and Satan was there with a "child" too, but (as usual) it just wasn't quite right. Very philosophical and esoteric. And very powerful imagery.

By the way, was it just me, or did anyone else notice the maggot (?) crawling out of Satan's nose in the opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane? My stepfather says that I need my eyes examined, but I know that I saw something there. I guess that's an excuse to go see it again! wink.gif

Just my tuppence.

Andy

Posted by: Elspeth 17-Mar-2004, 05:28 AM
No, you don't need your eyes examined. It was there and sooooo gross.

The Madona and child parallel works. I can see that. And again, how evil tries to simulate but it can only come across as grotesque and twisted.

Others have questioned the part with Judas and the children/demons.

What are your thoughts on that?

Posted by: andylucy 17-Mar-2004, 05:55 AM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Mar 17 2004, 05:28 AM)
Others have questioned the part with Judas and the children/demons.

What are your thoughts on that?

I haven't seen any reference to this scene in any of the interviews with Gibson or Caviezel. I have seen it referenced by the ADL as one of the more anti-semitic scenes in the film, you know, Jewish kids becoming demons. Blah, blah, blah. It's been enough to make me sick. puke.gif

Personally, I see it as the descent of Judas into the madness of despair. He was despondent, and possibly incoherent after seeing the Lord taken away, and knowing his role in it. The children, curious as always, came over and investigated him. He reacted in an atypical way, the way that one possessed by a demon would be expected to react in 1st century AD Palestine. The children began to berate him. Judas saw them not as children, but as demons tormenting him. And the descent into madness continued, culminating in the rope from the tree scene.

Again, this is my interpretation, and not based on any statements by the film makers. What are y'all's interpretations of this scene?

Just my tuppence.

Andy

Posted by: Elspeth 17-Mar-2004, 06:09 AM
I agree with you andy, that's how I saw it too.

With all the research, writing and rehearsing I've been doing on Judas, I was watching that part real close. tongue.gif

Posted by: andylucy 17-Mar-2004, 06:15 AM
I thought about you as the movie started and Judas' role began to play out, you being our resident forum "expert" on Judas.

Before you get an attack of modesty, let me explain. My senior thesis advisor once told me that the neat thing about studying a narrow enough topic is that you can become the world's leading expert in that field, if you get it narrow enough. So there.

Just my tuppence.

Andy

Posted by: Elspeth 17-Mar-2004, 06:47 AM
I think then I will narrow my field of expertise to the comma. biggrin.gif

It is cool to study a small piece of the whole and then watch it played out in the big picture.

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 20-Mar-2004, 02:56 AM
QUOTE (CelticRose @ Mar 14 2004, 05:10 PM)
Well, you all are not going to believe where I just came home from? The movie theatre to see The Passion of the Christ! Yep, you read right.

Wow! Words cannot describe! My back hurt, but hey! I sat through 3-1/2 hours of ROTK, so I thought 2 hours is not going to kill me. But I do wish I could have been home to sob my eyes out. Like AndyLucy said, no matter where you see it it is going to affect you, especially if you are a believer. It was soooooooo powerful and emotional! I started crying at the very first scene when the scripture showed up! And all that beating and scouraging just seemed like it went on forever! I thought it would never stop. This is why I have had my hesitancy about seeing it on the big screen. Well Mel Gibson and Jim Cavaziel did an outstanding job in presenting the visual of what we read in the Bible of what Christ went through. Both of them definitely deserve an Oscar! The part I did appreciate seeing was the relationship between Jesus and his mother. That to me was so incredibly moving as well.

I have a question though. What do you think the scene with Satan and the baby represented while Jesus was being flogged? I was a bit confused about that part.

Hey Rose, curiosity got the best of you, heh? I guess when I was urging you to go, I should have mentioned how quiet it was in the theater during the movie. No eating, drinking, or talking went on after the first two minutes of the movie---you could have heard a pin drop.

I'm glad you went, but sorry your back was hurting you. When I went the first time I went early so I could hit the restroom before the movie started (so I wouldn't have to go later). But wouldn't you know it I forgot to go and ten minutes into the movie I had to p---. During the whole movie I was holding it. I didn't want to miss one scene so I suffered through. The second time I saw The Passion Of The Christ it was perfect. I cried from start to finish, unlike the first time I could barely cry, because I was in such shock by it all. Like others posted earlier the movie is an experience. From what I'm hearing on the news "The Passion has earned 246 million dollars so far, and is expected to be the highest grossing film of all time. I can't wait until it comes out on DVD.

Be God's and be blessed,
Roisin
angel_not.gif

Posted by: CelticRose 20-Mar-2004, 07:56 PM
Yes, my friend Roisin! I finally went to see the film and I am glad that I did. I figure everywhere I go and do my back is going to hurt, so might as well enjoy a few things in life in the process,eh? Well the movie was sooooooo intense and emotional. I really did not enjoy the brutality of the movie but it is what our Christ did for us and might as well see it visually as that has more impact, eh?

Like you said, not a pin drop throughout the whole movie. I think that is the first time I have been to a movie theatre in my life where everybody didn't move and shut up like I wanted! laugh.gif

Posted by: CelticRose 20-Mar-2004, 08:00 PM
Maybe it is just me, but personally I had a problem with children being portrayed as the demons or should I say that the other way around.

Thanks, Andylucy for your words on the take on Lucifer and the child. Didn't think of it that way.

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 21-Mar-2004, 02:47 AM
Hey Rose, I like your new avatar---Very, very cooool!

Yes, I agree it was unsettling to see children as demons, but I tend to agree with andylucy that Judas was having a mental breakdown. On the other hand, I believe it was evil that was causing his insanity. I think Mel Gibson left it up to our own interpretation.

As for the devil with the baby, I heard on an ETWN interview with the Jim C. who played Jesus say the meaning was that Satan was taking what was good and holy, a love between a mother and her son and twisting it and using it to mock Jesus. That scene freaked me out. Gibson sure personafied evil in this movie. I've never seen it done this way before. It also gave me another perspective on how evil (Satan) might work or manipulate.

Posted by: CelticRose 21-Mar-2004, 03:50 AM
Glad you like my new avatar, Roisin! Compliments of our pal, Salvadore Dali! laugh.gif

well that is very interesting about Satan and the baby. I just wondered what the heck was going on there, thanks for explaining it to me. It was an excellent movie and I think that Mel Gibson did an outstanding job and I am so thankful that he is being so richly blessed because of this film. It is like one evangelist said, Robert Schuller, is that his name? He said that he told Mel that God had him do this film and I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment.

Posted by: andylucy 21-Mar-2004, 05:06 AM
QUOTE (CelticRose @ Mar 20 2004, 08:00 PM)
Maybe it is just me, but personally I had a problem with children being portrayed as the demons or should I say that the other way around.

For what it is worth, in one of the EWTN Gibson interviews, he said that evil does not come in an easy to recognize form, most of the time. Often, evil will masquerade itself as something innocent and pleasing. It was his purpose to demonstrate this. He didn't refer to this scene explicitly (I don't think he did, anyway. I've slept since then. biggrin.gif ) but it would seem to apply here. We don't normally associate evil with children (unless you are a teacher wink.gif ). !!Just Kidding!!

Just my tuppence.

Andy

Posted by: CelticRose 21-Mar-2004, 05:13 AM
Andy, the more I learn about this film, the more I see that Mel REALLY put a lot of thought into every detail of it!

Posted by: andylucy 21-Mar-2004, 05:23 AM
He said that he had the idea for this movie several years ago, and it slowly took form. It wasn't just thrown together like so many movies are. He has indeed put a lot of thought and study into his screenplay.

Personally, I wish he would write the story of his faith journey. I think it would make for fascinating reading!

Andy

Posted by: Elspeth 21-Mar-2004, 04:50 PM
QUOTE (Roisin-Teagan @ Mar 21 2004, 03:47 AM)

As for the devil with the baby, I heard on an ETWN interview with the Jim C. who played Jesus say the meaning was that Satan was taking what was good and holy, a love between a mother and her son and twisting it and using it to mock Jesus. That scene freaked me out. Gibson sure personafied evil in this movie. I've never seen it done this way before. It also gave me another perspective on how evil (Satan) might work or manipulate.

That scene freaked me out too! Like andy said, evil can come looking like anything wonderful - such as a mother and child - but when the veneer is stripped away, it looks like that 'mother' and 'baby'.

And all too true that evil disguises itself as something pleasing. It wouldn't tempt us otherwise. If it looked like what it was, there would be little difficulty turning from it.

I agree as well that the children were just children, but Judas in his madness saw them as something else.

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 22-Mar-2004, 09:36 AM
Andylucy wrote:
QUOTE
Personally, I wish he would write the story of his faith journey. I think it would make for fascinating reading!


andy, I totally agree with you. Mel Gibson is a complicated man or should I say that he has many sides. As for his journey toward the truth and love of Jesus Christ, I am very interested in reading about it, so I hope he writes an autobiography soon.

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 22-Mar-2004, 09:55 AM
QUOTE (CelticRose @ Mar 21 2004, 03:50 AM)
Glad you like my new avatar, Roisin! Compliments of our pal, Salvadore Dali! laugh.gif


I thought that looked like Dali. Where did you get it? I have been having the same avatar since I started Celticradio. Maybe I need a change? wink.gif

Posted by: CelticRose 22-Mar-2004, 02:53 PM
QUOTE (Roisin-Teagan @ Mar 22 2004, 10:55 AM)
QUOTE (CelticRose @ Mar 21 2004, 03:50 AM)
Glad you like my new avatar, Roisin! Compliments of our pal, Salvadore Dali!  laugh.gif


I thought that looked like Dali. Where did you get it? I have been having the same avatar since I started Celticradio. Maybe I need a change? wink.gif

Actually, Roisin! A friend of mine who loves art and Dali sent it to me who thought I might like it cause it was a painting of a rose and I fell in love with it! I also looked up Salvadore Dali on the net and a print of the painting was there also.

Posted by: Shamalama 23-Mar-2004, 12:35 PM
French theater chain labels Mel's film "fascist"
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004032301260002871978&dt=20040323012600&w=RTR&coview=

PARIS (Hollywood Reporter) - One of France's leading independent cinema groups has refused to program Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ," which it has branded "fascist propaganda."

"I refused to program the film in my network of theaters," MK2 president Marin Karmitz said in a written statement forwarded to The Hollywood Reporter. "I have always fought against fascism, notably through my exhibition activity. For me, 'Passion' is a film of fascist propaganda."

Karmitz's MK2, which also is involved in film distribution, runs one of Paris' leading art house circuits with 58 screens across 10 cinemas.

"Passion" is due to be released March 31 in France by Quinta Distribution, the new firm of Franco-Tunisian producer Tarak Ben Ammar. Ben Ammar's Paris office declined comment on Karmitz's view of the film.

Posted by: gaberlunzie 23-Mar-2004, 04:03 PM
The critics concerning the film are devastating in Europe - especially in Germany, too.
I've been to the movie. I don't have the words to describe this experience. You all did it so much better than I ever could and I agree fullheartedly with all of you.
I'm beginning to understand the extent of HIS sacrifice and HIS love...
But it wasn't quiet in the theater. Few people who seemed to feel like me who were crying, touched as deep as one can be and more...
Many people left when the movie was over before the light went on again, leaving while the movie was still shown...and the media it is spoken of too much violence, unnecessary brutality, careless researched, anti- Semitic ...

I'm sitting here asking me if it is the same movie me and them are speaking about and why the reaction is so much different...I don't know...

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 23-Mar-2004, 05:00 PM
QUOTE (gaberlunzie @ Mar 23 2004, 04:03 PM)
The critics concerning the film are devastating in Europe - especially in Germany, too.
I've been to the movie. I don't have the words to describe this experience. You all did it so much better than I ever could and I agree fullheartedly with all of you.
I'm beginning to understand the extent of HIS sacrifice and HIS love...
But it wasn't quiet in the theater. Few people who seemed to feel like me who were crying, touched as deep as one can be and more...
Many people left when the movie was over before the light went on again, leaving while the movie was still shown...and the media it is spoken of too much violence, unnecessary brutality, careless researched, anti- Semitic ...

I'm sitting here asking me if it is the same movie me and them are speaking about and why the reaction is so much different...I don't know...

Our critics in the U.S. were divided on the Passion of the Christ movie. But I noticed that the ones with all the negative critizim weren't actually professional critics, but media reporters with an agenda. Our professional critics loved the film, and some of those critics were Jewish as well. First of all the movie is a form of art, not the Bible. It is based strongly on the four Gospel accounts and is the most accurate film done on the subject of Christ.

French society is very humanistic and reject any form of religion. The French government passed a law in 1998 citing that paganism, Christianity, and other religions as cult religions. It is against the law to tell people about your religion or what you believe in on grounds you are trying to brain-wash or manipulate a person into your belief. A little tight in the shorts over there---maybe too much starch in the wash?

What are people really afraid of here anyway? Is the movie going to start a cultural revolution or what? Maybe. Have Americans risen up in anarchy because of the film? No. Have Americans attacked Jewish Temples or the Jewish people? No! Most people who starred in the Passion of the Christ were Jewish. The film is powerful, but not dangerous in the sense its critics are implying. As these detractors in France and Germany blow their horns against the movie they are in essence propelling the film forward. I hope more people see the film and listen to its message of love, sacrafice, and forgivness. love.gif

Posted by: andylucy 24-Mar-2004, 03:15 AM
I find it really illustrative that Mexican government authorities have given The Passion an "X" rating, thereby assuring (they think) that no one under 18 y/o will be able to see the movie. Yeah, right. Whatever. Thy can't even keep their side of the border secure, how are they gonna keep a determined 16 y/o from seeing a movie.

But Mexico has a long history of anti-clericalism/anti-Catholicism in its government, in spite of (or perhaps because of) the large percentage of the population who are Roman Catholic. Mel Gibson, being a Catholic, it is hardly surprising that Mexican authorities have tried to stymie the release of this movie.

Just my utppence.

Andy

Posted by: Elspeth 24-Mar-2004, 05:26 AM
QUOTE (gaberlunzie @ Mar 23 2004, 05:03 PM)

I'm sitting here asking me if it is the same movie me and them are speaking about and why the reaction is so much different...I don't know...

I agree with Roisin, I think the uproar comes from fear. As the song says - What if what they say is true? If this movie is true, then those who have comfortably dismissed Christ for so long as a nice little myth or fairy tale suddenly have to look the Truth in the face. So much easier to instead dismiss the movie.

Posted by: Shamalama 24-Mar-2004, 08:26 AM
Here in America there is a good number of people that are either fearful of or have complete disdain for Christianity. Do Christians have a superior attitude that others dislike? Have Christians tried to bible-thump too many people into the faith that others are now resentful of?

The French humanists and the Mexican anti-Catholics are no worse than the American agnostics/atheists.

I've seen "The Passion" renamed to "The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre" on other message boards, and it hurts. I don't treat other's faith that way, so why do strangers treat my faith that way?

I saw the movie as a huge message of hope and promise. We have dosenz of movies extolling the qualities of witchcraft and vampirism - why can't we have one about Christianity? I thought the rest of the world was loudly preaching Diversity, so why not celebrate our diverse faiths?


Posted by: gaberlunzie 26-Mar-2004, 04:40 AM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Mar 24 2004, 06:26 AM)
QUOTE (gaberlunzie @ Mar 23 2004, 05:03 PM)

I'm sitting here asking me if it is the same movie me and them are speaking about and why the reaction is so much different...I don't know...

I agree with Roisin, I think the uproar comes from fear. As the song says - What if what they say is true? If this movie is true, then those who have comfortably dismissed Christ for so long as a nice little myth or fairy tale suddenly have to look the Truth in the face. So much easier to instead dismiss the movie.

Fear...that sounds quite logical for me. Sure, it's much easier to refuse than to get involved to anything that might shatter your emotions, convictions, comfy way of "letting go"...that might possibly question alot you considered as right or given before.
Every third German won't go to see the movie. They all have already made up their opinion - only by some scenes which have been shown before or by what has been written by "experts". Evenif they go they have their prepared opinion, they are not ready to open their mind, heart and senses for this movie, this message, this EXPERIENCE.
For me, quite honestly, it was not easy at all to go. I also was afraid. I was afraid to deliver myself totally to this message of sacrifice, forgivness, hope and most of all love of an extent man can hardly realise and imagine.
And it worked exactly the way I had been afraid of.
I was shocked, shattered fundamentally; then I opened myself and I felt: burning guilt - I'm as guilty or better said no less guilty than everybody else of HIS suffering. Modesty. I got the message of forgivness and most of all of HIS LOVE and I FELT this love and all of a sudden all the walls of protection I had built up around me out of fear of being hurt again or out of , oh so silly!, denial broke down. I "delivered" myself and found my way back. I'm not worth of this sacrifice and I'm grateful for his love and forgivness - and for the hope the Ressurection gives.
It is the best movie I've ever seen though I wouldn't call it a movie. I have no word for it...EXPERIENCE is the neariest I can think of.
Is this film "Hollywood"...made out of personal , egoistic thoughts and aims, showing the personal view of Mel Gibson as it is critisized...or is it more; as it is so powerful ...and what if it is true...all you who you are dismissing it...
One thing the movie surely succeded in is that there is hardly a way not to get into "contact" with it...

Posted by: andylucy 26-Mar-2004, 04:49 AM
I never have understood the complaints about this film being Mel Gibson's personal view of the Gospels. So what? It is the prerogative of every filmmaker to infuse their sensibilities on their projects. It is up to us to determine whether that invalidates the message. In this instance, I (personally speaking) don't feel it does. I like the fact that he went out on a limb and let people see what he really believes. Is this film "Hollywood," no. When was the last time you watched a movie and were moved the way this film moves people? Hollywood wouldn't touch this film with a 3 meter casting couch (see, I am trying to use metric laugh.gif ).

Just my tuppence.

Andy

Posted by: gaberlunzie 26-Mar-2004, 05:50 AM
QUOTE (andylucy @ Mar 26 2004, 05:49 AM)
Hollywood wouldn't touch this film with a 3 meter casting couch (see, I am trying to use metric laugh.gif ).

Just my tuppence.

Andy

I highly appreciate that! biggrin.gif

I agree with you. This film isn't Hollywood. I'm proud that Mel Gibson had the courage to realise the film. As you said it to go out and let people know what he believes in.

This is a no-no in society. Religion is a private matter; not to be dealt with in such a public way.
I read that it is a movie made by a man who really has everything and who didn't know with what to deal now. In the sense that Mel Gibson is one of those who first lived their life excessivly and now as there is nothing left and everything else had lost fascination for him he is remembering religion.

First of all it is not true as he has always been a devoted Catholic - and then, where did people get the right from to insult others this way?


Posted by: Elspeth 27-Mar-2004, 05:59 AM
What continually awes me is the amount of pre-release publicity movies usually release. Ads are everywhere.

Did The Passion advertise anywhere? Many say that the press played into Mel's diabolical schemes, doing his publicity for him. But to me it just shows that if God wants a message to be revealed it's gonna happen. And those who tried to vilify the film before it ever got off the ground instead only aided the overwhelming success in terms of numbers who have witnessed the message.

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 27-Mar-2004, 06:12 AM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Mar 27 2004, 05:59 AM)
What continually awes me is the amount of pre-release publicity movies usually release. Ads are everywhere.

Did The Passion advertise anywhere? Many say that the press played into Mel's diabolical schemes, doing his publicity for him. But to me it just shows that if God wants a message to be revealed it's gonna happen. And those who tried to vilify the film before it ever got off the ground instead only aided the overwhelming success in terms of numbers who have witnessed the message.

Elspeth,

I agree with you. Mel Gibson was in the middle of shooting The Passion of the Christ...when the attacks started. Just the mere mention of Jesus Christ in a literal sense sends the whooy flying. God indeed works in mysterious ways. I believe His hand was upon this project from the start, and everything that evolved was His perfect will. Just look at the title...it started out as "The Passion," but because Marimax films had already copyrighted the title for one of their upcoming movies, Mel had to change the movie title to "The Passion of the Christ!" God will get the glory for His ways are beyond finding out.

Posted by: MDF3530 08-Apr-2004, 09:08 PM
I went to see "The Passion of The Christ" today at the local megaplex. I have to agree with my dad when he said he liked The Book better. It was good, but some of the gore could've been saved for the "Director's Cut" DVD.

Posted by: tsargent62 12-Apr-2004, 08:26 AM
I finally went to see "The Passion of the Christ" last night. I walked to my car in stunned silence, then I broke down. I knew that Jesus died for us, I knew that He suffered. Being a visually oriented person, how badly He suffered was driven home for me. Knowing what little I know of Roman history, I believe that the scourging He endured and the cruelty with which He was treated was depicted accurately. For the Romans, compassion was considered a weakness, and I think that was also well depicted.

As many of you stated, I do not feel worthy of that kind of sacrifice. Would I have the strength and courage to go through what Jesus did? Not a chance. I sat through that "experience" not wishing to see what I was seeing, but not being able to look away; not wanting to look away.

Sure, there was a lot of blood, but we've all seen too many antiseptic treatments of this topic. I'm sure, 2000 years ago, when He was going through all that, he had to have been covered in blood. He would not have been accorded the chance to have been cleaned up and his wounds dressed.

I do feel closer to God and Jesus after seeing this film. However, I am deeply saddened. As much as I love Jesus and how many times I have thanked him for his sacrifice, I never really appreciated the magnitude of it. I'm still not sure why it was necessary, although I'm sure God had His reasons and Jesus accepted them.

Please forgive me for rambling on. This film affected me in a way I never expected and I'm still trying to sort it all out.

May our Heavenly Father bless you all.

Todd

Posted by: CelticRose 12-Apr-2004, 11:39 AM
Todd, when I went to see The Passion of the Christ, afterwards, I could not speak for an hour! I was so choked up. Such a powerful film, eh? And I agree with you, no way would I have been able to endure what He did .............for lil ole me!

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 13-Apr-2004, 03:19 AM
Todd, I don't find that you were rambling at all. You expressed your thoughts and heart's emotions beautifully.

If you want to understand why God required Jesus to sacrafice His life for ours go and read the book of Romans and the book of Hebrews; then go and read Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 in the Bible. Pray before you read and ask God to reveal His truth to you. Remember Jesus said, "Knock and it shall be opened to you, seek and you shall find...You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

Peace,
Roisin angel_not.gif

Posted by: Haldur 16-Apr-2004, 03:52 AM
For one thing, I thought the Passion of the Christ was not scriptural in parts. For one, to answer everyone's questions, the scene where the proposed being of Satan holding the baby at Christ's flogging is not in the Bible;neither is the scene at the beginning where Christ stomped his foot down on the head of the serpent. These are all artistic "additives" that Mel obviously added in, which given they are powerful, but sadly are not scriptural.
The construction of Jesus' cross was also not scriptural and the crow pecking at the thief's eye was totally unnecessary, besides being...you guessed it, non-scriptural. For anyone that has at least skimmed through the Gospels (I have read them most of my life) "The Passion of the Christ" is not a historical or Biblical representation of the Truth of Christ's ultimate sacrifice. I hope to not ruffle anyone's feathers on this; read the Bible closely, analyze its every word and you'll see what I mean! I believe that someone could have done a better job (and may some day, hopefully!). I feel it was a great movie for movies' sake, but not a true Christian or scriptural rendering of the most important event in the history of the world.

Posted by: Haldur 16-Apr-2004, 03:53 AM
I want to add that this movie is very powerful for a movie...but one should not be lead astray by believing that everything within it is the Truth. Only the Bible and your heart can show that!
God bless.

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 16-Apr-2004, 09:23 AM
Haldur, Your not ruffling any feathers. You have every right to your opinion and it is welcomed here.

Mel Gibson never proclaimed that the movie was a rendering of a word for word of the New Testament account of the Bible, but it was strongly based on the Four Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. He has said many times this is his vision of what Christ went through "based" on the Four Gospel accounts and historical accounts of Roman crucifixions. I've studied at some length about Roman crucifixions and Gibson's rendition is very accurate. It is more than a movie it is an experience. It is the only one of its kind to portray Christ torture, crucifixion, and resurrection in an honest way. Mel Gibson has always proclaimed first and foremost that this movie is a piece of art then a spiritual expression second. Can it not be both? Can it not inspire, reveal, and point to the truth of Jesus Christ's sacrafice for the world? This movie is re-inactment of an expression of God's love to the world that took place over two thousand years ago. One thing that The Passion of the Christ (movie) did do is get people reading and wondering about the actual accounts written in the Bible of Christ's death and resurrection.

Jesus said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men close to me." Mel Gibson did just that---He lifted Jesus up and used a vehicle of Hollywood to get Christ's message out..."For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16

Peace,
Roisin angel_not.gif

Posted by: CelticRose 16-Apr-2004, 01:37 PM
I happen to agree with both Roisin and Haldur! I thought the crow plucking the guy's eye out was gross and unnecessary. gosh! We saw more than enough brutality, but maybe I am a wimp. I still feel it was an awesome movie and could see that Mel Gibson's heart was in this movie like any other I have seen of his. You could see and feel that in the movie. I especially loved seeing the relationship between Jesus and his mother. Not too much is written in the Bible about that relationship and I was glad to see that in this movie. I am sure she went through such pain and torment seeing her son go through all this, despite knowing who he was. but I loved it that Mel chose to make His mother a big part of the film as well. Oh, I could go on and on.

Thank you Roisin for encouraging me to see this wonderful film! hug.gif

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 16-Apr-2004, 09:51 PM
Hey, Rose that's what friends are for... to encourage clap.gif, comfort, care, hug.gif, and love oneanother wub.gif

I know we are only Cyber friends...but the word of God says, "There is no time or distance in the spirit," so we are as close as friends and sister's in Christ as if I were physically there. If you ever need me just drop me a line, and I'll come typing! laugh.gif wink.gif

Yours,
Roisin angel_not.gif

Posted by: MacEoghainn 17-Apr-2004, 07:22 AM
QUOTE (Haldur @ Apr 16 2004, 04:52 AM)
I feel it was a great movie for movies' sake, but not a true Christian or scriptural rendering of the most important event in the history of the world.

Haldur,

Can anything that comes from Hollywood ever be accurate? My only thought is: If one person comes to Christ because of this Movie then wouldn't the inaccuracies and "artistic" liberties be worth putting up with?

Romans 8:28 (KJV)
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

MacE

Posted by: CelticRose 17-Apr-2004, 06:42 PM
QUOTE (MacEoghainn @ Apr 17 2004, 08:22 AM)
Haldur,

Can anything that comes from Hollywood ever be accurate? My only thought is: If one person comes to Christ because of this Movie then wouldn't the inaccuracies and "artistic" liberties be worth putting up with?

Romans 8:28 (KJV)
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

MacE

I agree wholeheartedly, MacE! If just one person comes to Christ because of this film, all the angels in heaven will have rejoiced and it would have all been worth it!


Roisin! thank you for being my friend and being there for me! hug.gif I'm just fingers away from you too, my pal! wink.gif smile.gif

Posted by: Haldur 20-Apr-2004, 05:01 AM
I honestly believe The Passion of the Christ was a wonderful film, don't get me wrong! My wife cried all the way through it; meanwhile, I was just mesmerized by the story. I feel that is a monumental film.

Posted by: WizardofOwls 23-Aug-2004, 08:08 PM
I was so disappointed that I didn't get to see this movie! I heard recently that its set to come out on video at the end of this month! Beleive you me, I WILL have a copy of it in my library! smile.gif I can't wait to see it!

Posted by: MacAibhistin 23-Aug-2004, 11:08 PM
For one thing, I thought the Passion of the Christ was not scriptural in parts. For one, to answer everyone's questions, the scene where the proposed being of Satan holding the baby at Christ's flogging is not in the Bible;neither is the scene at the beginning where Christ stomped his foot down on the head of the serpent. These are all artistic "additives" that Mel obviously added in, which given they are powerful, but sadly are not scriptural.
The construction of Jesus' cross was also not scriptural and the crow pecking at the thief's eye was totally unnecessary, besides being...you guessed it, non-scriptural. For anyone that has at least skimmed through the Gospels (I have read them most of my life) "The Passion of the Christ" is not a historical or Biblical representation of the Truth of Christ's ultimate sacrifice. I hope to not ruffle anyone's feathers on this; read the Bible closely, analyze its every word and you'll see what I mean! I believe that someone could have done a better job (and may some day, hopefully!). I feel it was a great movie for movies' sake, but not a true Christian or scriptural rendering of the most important event in the history of the world.


I know I am joining this discussion late, but I'd like to follow up on a few of Haldur's points.

First of all, we really don't have an extensive amount of historical detail on the life of Christ, so we use the Bible as our base and build from there. Of course the devil elements were added for dramatic effect, and you need to expect this in a movie. It certainly was a great metaphor for showing how Satan (evil) is at work very subtly in society. The crow wasn't unnecessary, I don't think, because there are lots of animal scavengers who take advantage of "free lunches" in nature, and certainly the Romans left dead people on crosses along their roads to discourage people from defying their power.

I am not sure how you can say that the movie wasn't a true Christian rendering of the event. Even the gospels disagree on details, so if Gibson's movie adds a few inconsequential details, you have to ask "Does this contradict or take away from the significance of the event?", obviously, there is nothing in the movie that gives us false information regarding Christ's death at Calvary.

Finally, the scene where Christ crushes the serpent's head in the garden is, in fact, in the Bible. It is a reference to the prophecy made in Genesis chapter 3.

I don't mean to sound argumentative here, but I just thought that one more viewpoint might be useful in this thread.

Good night,
Rory MacA

Posted by: CelticRose 24-Aug-2004, 03:35 PM
Rory! I hear what you are saying. While I thought the movie was very powerful and emotional, but my hubby who is a very strong Christian did not like the film at all because he just found all the violence unnecessary..............such as the baby with Satan and the vultures at the crucifixion scene. While certain things you metioned were not in the Bible, maybe there was some things that Mel Gibson was trying to say himself through the creation of his movie as well. All artists take artitistic liberties as they have something to say via their crafts. I took it to be just that.

Still a powerful film and I hope you get to see it soon Allen and anxious to hear your comments on it.

Posted by: cori 25-Aug-2004, 12:32 PM
I didn't get to see this movie, so I am just asking for info's sake. I have heard many people say that this was a Christian movie. Others say it is not biblically sound.

QUOTE
I am not sure how you can say that the movie wasn't a true Christian rendering of the event. Even the gospels disagree on details, so if Gibson's movie adds a few inconsequential details, you have to ask "Does this contradict or take away from the significance of the event?", obviously, there is nothing in the movie that gives us false information regarding Christ's death at Calvary.


As to that, I agree that minor differences are really incosequential, but tell me. Did this movie portray the reason for Christ's death? Or did it just portray the death itself. If it does not make clear that God sent His Son as a substitute payment for the penalty of death that we have all inflicted onourselves by sinning against God's commands, what is the point in making the movie? It can only be a witnessing tool, if it is biblically correct in this way. Otherwise, it's just another Hollywood film.


Just my opinion.
Leslie



Posted by: MacAibhistin 25-Aug-2004, 07:30 PM
Cori, that is an interesting and valid point you raise. I can't recall if there was much talk in the movie as to "why" Christ had to die. I guess part of the problem is that the movie is in English subtitles. However, if you are familiar with Christianity, as are most who will see this movie, then you easily get the point. I wouldn't take someone to see it if they didn't know a thing about Christ, that's for sure. But once someone has been introduced to the basics of Christianity, then this becomes a powerful tool to help drive the point home.

Many people seem to be taking pot shots at Gibson's artistic liberty. That, too, is an interesting issue, but I can't personally see what the fuss is about. He tried to make it graphic and gruesome because crucifixion was indeed that. Just like the burning at the stake of so-called heretics and witches during the Middle Ages. His scene with the Devil and the baby are also in keeping with what we know of Satan's character. If he tried to go on just the "facts" as stated in the Bible, he would not have been able to make a full length film, but a "short". Regardless, I think it was a fabulous film.

Rory

Posted by: CelticRose 26-Aug-2004, 04:13 PM
I have to agree with you totally, Rory! thumbs_up.gif

Posted by: cori 26-Aug-2004, 07:29 PM
Rory,

Thanks for your input. I am definitely going to watch it, but I wasn't sure what to expect. Some of my family watched it and, even though they are Christian, they saw only the "cool" film. Then others watched it and grasped what they said were some awesome truths that had not occured to them before. It should prove a memorable movie.


Posted by: MacAibhistin 26-Aug-2004, 11:43 PM
I look forward to hearing your response, Cori.

Rory

Posted by: Tassiecelt 12-Sep-2004, 12:02 AM
QUOTE (cori @ 26-Aug-2004, 04:32 AM)
I didn't get to see this movie, so I am just asking for info's sake. I have heard many people say that this was a Christian movie. Others say it is not biblically sound.



As to that, I agree that minor differences are really incosequential, but tell me. Did this movie portray the reason for Christ's death? Or did it just portray the death itself. If it does not make clear that God sent His Son as a substitute payment for the penalty of death that we have all inflicted onourselves by sinning against God's commands, what is the point in making the movie? It can only be a witnessing tool, if it is biblically correct in this way. Otherwise, it's just another Hollywood film.


Just my opinion.
Leslie



I have to agree with you Leslie (coming in late here I know).

However, in spite of the dodgy theology, it did bring home Christ's suffering for me more vividly, and for that I am grateful to Mel.

It's like most films, powerful, but the Book is better.

BTW, the Gospels are in perfect harmony with each other, they present four accurate views of events from a differing angle. God has given us in the four views a complete and perfect picture.

Posted by: Liriel Baenre Do'Urden 12-Sep-2004, 06:36 AM
I just finished watching the film last night. And to echo everyone it was a great artistic film.

But each person who watches it will find their own meaning for it and I think that's the way Gibson wanted. To find in yourself the meaning of God's sacrifice of his only son.

Posted by: BluegrassLady 13-Sep-2004, 12:00 AM
I haven't seen this movie yet. I didn't think I wanted to watch it at the theater, but in the privacy of my own home. My daughter bought the DVD last week and now my son has it. I'm next on the list smile.gif

Posted by: sprdleyb 13-Sep-2004, 10:40 AM
I finally got to see it laugh.gif

That was the most intense and moving film I've ever seen.

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