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sorbus 
  Posted: 11-Aug-2005, 02:08 PM
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I started To read this thinking I was going to read about "The Black Watch" 5
killed in Camp Dogwood then realised I was dealing with People Who
Bought into "The American Century" Mindset which believed it was possible
to Invade a Country Wage Allout War and Not Suffer Casualities
Which is Why I put in The Song about The Soldier/Victim Coming Home in an almost Unrecognisable State and Yeah I am AntiWar I marched Against Vietnam I
Marched against Bush Juniors War in Iraq But I supported The Balkan War I Supported Bush Senior`s War I supported Afghanistan Not exactly A Taliban
Lover My friend and I were Discussing The Forth coming War and how rather than calming the flames an Invasion of Iraq was unnecessary Two Year Before the
Actual Event up until The Bombing of London where I have Relatives among other thingsI felt Like a Bewildered Observer watching Some Bizarre Human Tragedy
War is Not Glorious War is a Failure to Resolve Political Situations by Other Means
You comment on The Fact This is The Twenty First Century
Yeah well Tell Marshall Bush That or Sherrif Blair
I find it Ironic That The Real Draft Dodger President Clinton
Fought A Good War
Whereas The President Who wasbut Wasn`t on National Guard Duty
Has Duplicated The Vietnam Scenario of fighting an Unnwinnable War
Why Unnwinable because The Opponents both operate outside the normal
mindset
On One side you Have The American Century Mindset
On The other A Medieval Mentality Unfocused MultiDirectional that believes The
Planet will accept Sharia Law

and someone actually believes I agree with laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif ROFLMAO


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TheCarolinaScotsman 
Posted: 11-Aug-2005, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (sorbus @ 11-Aug-2005, 03:08 PM)

I find it Ironic That The Real Draft Dodger President Clinton
Fought A Good War

Please sir, what war was that?


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sorbus 
Posted: 11-Aug-2005, 02:38 PM
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The Balkans and Iraq He Kept Saddam Bottled up with No Fly Zones
Bush jnr Behaved Properly in Afghanistan
But Iraq was an unnecessary war in RealPolitikal Terms
It was War as A Social Experiment
Have You Ever Read The American Century
What JK Rowling Writes is Closer To Reality cool.gif
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 11-Aug-2005, 03:05 PM
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I see. I was wondering what you meant too. You're saying Clinton's "good" war was avoiding full-scale armed conflict.
Say more about what you mean that the second Iraq conflict is a social experiment. To demonstrate or test what?

I have not actually read The American Century. (Slater and Taylor, right? You recommend it as helpful to understanding the impasse?) Here's a wee thumbnail sketch. Must be a collection of essays, then:

This book brings together studies of Americanization and American imperialism to assess how far the twentieth century can be seen as the "American Century". The collection comprises new contributions exploring the "geographic dialogues" that arise as the result of the projection of American power and culture in the world. The book provides a critical evaluation of the extent of the diffusion and adoption of the "American way of life" and the very concept of "America" itself. The contributors focus on the effects of the projection of American society from the perspective of the "receivers", both as beneficiaries and as victims. The sections examine three main forms of American power: economic, political and cultural. Topics covered include the role of US corporations; financial power; overseas service investments; American promotion of democracy; the Cold War and the Third World; Hollywood and the American dream; global Disney; the globalization of media; and the influence of American music. The book concludes by looking forward to ask if we are entering a second American century.--This text refers to the Paperback edition.

About the Author
David Slater is Professor of Social and Political Geography at Loughborough University, and Joint Editor of Political Geography. He is author of Territory and State Power in Latin America (1989) and editor of Social Movements and Political Change in Latin America (1994). Peter Taylor is Professor of Geography and Associate Dean for Research in the Faculty of Social Science and Humanities at Loughborough University. He was the editor of Political Geography (1982-1998) and an editor of Review of International Political Economy (1992-1997). His previous books include The Way the Modern World Works: World Hegemony to World Impasse (1996) and Modernities: A Geohistorical Perspective (Polity, 1999).--This text refers to the Paperback edition.
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sorbus 
  Posted: 11-Aug-2005, 03:37 PM
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Stormeil I`m Talking of A Think Tank which Planned The Iraq war Roughly about The Time My Friend and I started to talk about what This NeoConservative
Organism was Talking Aboout Funnily enough we did consult a Book by Bernard Lewis called
"From Babel To Dragomans" (Interpreting The Middle East)
Previous To The Invasion
In a Previously Unforseen Event
People Started Protesting Against A War in which the The First Shot had not even been fired
This Was not a Normal Scenario cool.gif
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SCShamrock 
Posted: 11-Aug-2005, 06:12 PM
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The war against terrorism may never be won, but it will certainly be fought.

What alternative do we have?


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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.
~Mark Twain
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sniper 
Posted: 11-Aug-2005, 06:47 PM
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The communists (neo-socialists) in this country fought long and hard to undermine our efforts to win in Vietnam and when we finally pulled out 2.3 million South Vietnamese died at the hands of the Vietcong.
Today, in America, the communist anti-war protesters are seen as what they are, sixties-era drugged out hippies with the ideals of Karl Marx jotted down and stuffed in their brown shirt pockets.
The election of 2004 sent a clear signal they are nothing more than the court jesters, amusing in their antics, flailing about like epileptics, repeating only the cliche's their handlers have fed them.
Independent thought would allow them to realize that calling the people that defeat them in elections "stupid", et. al. doesn't reflect well on their own mental abilities, but then you can't teach them the obvious.
While our enemy, the neo-fascists, neo-socialists, neo-communists, never met a dictator they didn't like, they have no chance of being a legitimate voice in American politics for at least another generation.
So write all the rhyme's you like, it only advances the transparency of your agenda.


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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Militia
1.Civilians trained as soldiers but not part of the regular army

2.The entire body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service
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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 11-Aug-2005, 07:17 PM
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Some hard numbers and a question:

American Military Casualties in past wars and selected major battles

The Revolution

Lexington: 7 dead

Bunker and Breeds Hill: 400 dead, wounded, or taken prisoner

Total Revolutionary War: recent scholarly estimate lists 6,824 killed and 8,445 wounded in action

War of 1812: 2,260 killed and 4,505 wounded in action

Mexican American War: 1,733 killed and 4,152 wounded in action

The Civil War:

First Battle of Bull Run: (Confederate and Union losses) 847 killed and 2,706 wounded in action

Shiloh: (Confederate and Union losses) 3,482 killed and 16,420 wounded in action

Gettysburg: (Confederate and Union losses) 5,747 killed and 32,985 wounded in action

Total Civil War: (Confederate and Union losses) 184,954 killed and 412,175 wounded in action.

Spanish American War: 385 killed and 1,662 wounded in action

World War 1: 53,513 killed and 204,002 wounded in action

World War 2:

Pearl Harbor: 2,340 killed and 1,143 wounded in action

Tarawa: 1,115 killed and 2,292 wounded in action

Normandy (D-day) 1,465 killed and 3,184 wounded in action

Iwo Jima: 7,000 killed and 19,000 wounded in action (said of the Marines at Iwo Jima:?Uncommon Valor was a Common Virtue?)

Total WW2: 292,131 killed and 670,846 wounded in action

Korean War: 33,651 killed and 103,284 wounded in action

Vietnam War: 47,369 killed and 153,303 wounded in action

1st Gulf War: 148 killed and 467 wounded in action


For our friends on the left: In which one of these wars or battles should America have decided enough was a enough and turned tail and run?


FREEDOM ISN'T FREE


I watched the flag pass by one day.
It fluttered in the breeze
A young soldier saluted it, and then
He stood at ease.
I looked at him in uniform
So young, so tall, so proud
With hair cut square and eyes alert
He'd stand out in any crowd.
I thought how many men like him
Had fallen through the years.
How many died on foreign soil?
How many mothers' tears?
How many Pilots' planes shot down?
How many foxholes were soldiers' graves?
No Freedom isn't free


I heard the sound of taps one night,
When everything was still.
I listened to the bugler play
And felt a sudden chill.
I wondered just how many times
That taps had meant "Amen"
When a flag had draped a coffin
of a brother or a friend.
I thought of all the children,
Of the mothers and the wives,
Of fathers, sons and husbands
With interrupted lives.
I thought about a graveyard at the
bottom of the sea
Of unmarked graves in Arlington.....
No -- Freedom isn't free!!

Author Unknown



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Steve Ewing

I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. Job 19:25

"Non sibi sed patriae!"

Reviresco (I grow strong again)
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Audaciter (Audacity)
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(descendants of Baron William Ewing of Glasgow, born about 1630)

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." from "Epitoma Rei Militaris," by Vegetius

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Sonee 
Posted: 12-Aug-2005, 08:33 AM
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The problem seems to be that the un-enlightened public seems to think the only time we should fight is when we are directly attacked. Saddam wasn't responsible for 9-11, (which many feel is the reason behind the current war) so we shouldn't be attacking him. They couldn't be more wrong. This is a war on terrorism in general, NOT just the person/people responsible for 9-11. Admittedly this is a war that can never be "won" in the broad sense of the word. But, as Shamrock stated, what other choice do we have? Are we expected to sit on our hands waiting until the next attack? If we only retaliate when personally attacked we will soon run out of people to defend as they will be killed by the terrorist. If, by taking out Saddam and, eventually, Osama makes it more difficult for another terrorist to act I'm all for it. And, if you'll ask almost any soldier currently in uniform, so are they.

The British Prime Minister (May He Rot In Hell)
Joined The American President in Using British
and American Troops to invade a Reasonably
Stable Country
Note The Word Invade


Are you saying that Iraq was stable? In whose veiwpoint? The Iraqi people who lived in terror every day of their lives? The surrounding countries living in fear of invasion by Saddam?

Stormeil I`m Talking of A Think Tank which Planned The Iraq war Roughly about The Time My Friend and I started to talk about what This NeoConservative


Tell me, where is the PROOF that it was planned prior to the invasion? And not the paranoid rambalings of the anti government factions. Actual documtented proof.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and you are cetainly free to dislike the Bush administration and Tony Blair for any actions they take to protect their respective countries, after all, that's what FREEDOM is all about.


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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke

"If there's a book you really want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." ~Toni Morrison
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sniper 
  Posted: 13-Aug-2005, 07:05 AM
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QUOTE (MacEoghainn @ 11-Aug-2005, 07:17 PM)
For our friends on the left: In which one of these wars or battles should America have decided enough was a enough and turned tail and run?



It seems when questions such as this are posed to those opposed to our defense there is a deafening silence since they have no answer of any type for such hard questions.

The philosophical parabolas about how we should all live in peace and change our national policies to appease those that would annihilate us from the face of the earth always omit the most vital figures from the equation and the result is as we know from history, the weak are destroyed while the strong survive.

With dedication to our survival, may we remain strong.
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