Patrick Frank
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| Posted by: patrickgfrank 29-Sep-2008, 07:04 AM |
| I am a Celtic music fan who is also a poet/songwriter doing grassroots political work in the Barack Obama campaign. I would like to discuss the campaign and Obama with my Irish friends. Patrick Frank |
| Posted by: John Clements 29-Sep-2008, 10:18 AM | ||
Dear Patrick; Thank you for all you work in the effort to right our country, I too also feel that Barack Obama is what we should be about. Is it just me, or did anyone else notice the subtle, yet huge difference between Obama and McCain in this debate? It happened during the discussing as to whether or not to talk openly to our enemy’s, (with or without pre conditions), which Obama is in favor of, and McCain is not, (and would rather act covertly). This difference is a simple matter of honesty, and to me, says it all. Thanks again, JC |
| Posted by: gwenlee 29-Sep-2008, 01:33 PM |
| I'm not for Obama or McCain. The debates didn't change my view about either one of them. Each are for big government. In fact the more the better according to Obama and if you don't want to give to the cause by golly they will take it anyway by taxing you to death. Seems like we can't get through to the elected officials that less government is better government. I'm tired of the entitlement programs that have been passed by both sides. Tired of paying for children that people choose to have when they know they can't afford them, I am tired of people holding their hands out for a handout and not wanting to give anything back, they just want to sit on their bums. We have allowed the government to create a group of people who believe that what is mine is mine and what is yours is mine too. Our forefathers are turning over in their graves, if they were alive they would be leading another revolutions. Thank goodness the bailout didn't pass as written. Humm and it was Obama and McCain each taking credit for the bailout plan. Now what is their plan. Okay I sound angry, I know. But after listening to all the talk after the bill was voted down, no wonder congress approval rate is 17 percent. So until Obama or McCain can come up with ideas that make sense. What is there to talk about? Change what change with either one of them there will be no change. Did you know that Obama was in the top 3 receiptents that got money from Freddie Mac/May? What are all of those on Capital hill to gain from the bail out? JC there is no honesty with any of those folks from the top down. |
| Posted by: John Clements 29-Sep-2008, 02:02 PM |
| Hi Gwen; Can’t say that I don’t agree with you, but it’s all a matter of degree my dear… all a matter of degree, (mimicking W. C. Fields). JC |
| Posted by: Patch 29-Sep-2008, 02:06 PM | ||
I agree with you completely. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Fionna Machumhail 29-Sep-2008, 02:12 PM |
| As many times as Ralph Nader has thrown his hat in the ring.....you'd think by now we'd scratch our heads and say...hmmmm maybe he's got a point! lol I agree with what gwenlee said about our forefathers turning somersaults in their graves and planning another revolution. They'd probably want to give us all a good thrashing for starters. |
| Posted by: Patch 29-Sep-2008, 02:18 PM | ||
From the Liberrtarians. A visitor from the past by Thelan Paulk I had a dream the other night, I didn't understand. A figure walking through the mist, with flintlock in his hand. His clothes were torn and dirty, as he stood beside my bed. He took off his three-cornered hat, and speaking low, he said: "We fought a revolution, to secure our liberty. We wrote the Constitution, as a shield from tyranny. For future generations, this legacy we gave, In this, the land of the free and the home of the brave. "The freedom we secured for you, we hoped you'd always keep, But tyrants labored endlessly while your parents were asleep. Your freedom gone - your courage lost - you're no more than a slave, In this, the land of the free and the home of the brave. "You buy permits to travel, and permits to own a gun. Permits to start a business, or to build a place for one. On land that you believe you own, you pay a yearly rent. Although you have no voice in choosing, how the money's spent. "Your children must attend a school, that doesn't educate. Your Christian values can't be taught, according to the state. You read about the current news, in a very biased press. You pay a tax you do not owe, to please the I.R.S. "Your money is no longer made of Silver, or of Gold. You trade your wealth for paper, so your life can be controlled. You pay for crimes that make our Nation, turn from God in shame. You've taken Satan's number, as you've traded in your name. "You've given government control, to those who do you harm. So they can padlock churches, and steal the family farm. And keep our country deep in debt, put men of God in jail. Harass your fellow countrymen, while corrupted courts prevail. "Your public servants don't uphold, the solemn oath they've sworn. Your daughters visit doctors, so their children won't be born. Your leaders, ship artillery and guns to foreign shores. And send your sons to slaughter, fighting other people's wars. "Can you regain the freedom for which we fought and died? Or don't you have the courage, or the faith to stand with pride? Are there no more values, for which you'll fight to save? Or do you wish your children, to live in fear and be a slave? "Sons of the Republic, arise and take a stand! Defend the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land! Preserve our great Republic, and each God-given Right! And pray to GOD to keep the torch, of Freedom burning bright!" As I awoke he vanished, in the mist from whence he came. His words were true, we are not free, we have ourselves to blame. For even now as tyrants, trample each God-given Right. We only watch and tremble, too afraid to stand and fight. If he stood by your bedside, in a dream, while you're asleep. And wondered what remains of our Rights he fought to keep. What would be your answer, if he called out from the Grave: IS THIS STILL THE LAND OF THE FREE, AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE??? |
| Posted by: Fionna Machumhail 29-Sep-2008, 02:22 PM |
Beautiful poem...and very well said!  |
| Posted by: Patch 29-Sep-2008, 02:22 PM |
| ALL Americans should read the book, "The Creature From Jekyl Island". It is a "long read" but you will fully understand America's monetary system under the Federal Reserve! Slàinte, Patch The "Keating Five" included McCain and a Bush! |
| Posted by: Fionna Machumhail 29-Sep-2008, 02:30 PM |
| Thanks I'll look for that one. Yes but John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of any wrongdoing, though criticized for using poor judgement. |
| Posted by: valpal59 29-Sep-2008, 03:35 PM |
| Patch, Thank-you for posting that poem it was great. I just emailed it to everyone in my address book. |
| Posted by: gwenlee 29-Sep-2008, 03:42 PM | ||||
Patch, I have read this before but every time I read it it stirs up great emotion. I don't know how any one in Washington wakes up each day and looks at themselves in the mirror. Maybe they aren't looking at themselves because they are too busy looking at someone else and pointing fingers. |
| Posted by: John Clements 29-Sep-2008, 07:37 PM | ||||||
You know I’m with this poem until the end of the second verse. Where it is says…the land of the free…oh…except for Native Americans, and African slaves. That’s where its credibility ends, as least as far as I concerned. And to answer the question of how politicians can look into the mirror, excuse me, but I don’t know how any of us can! |
| Posted by: Jillian 30-Sep-2008, 05:09 AM |
| Remember...there was a time when caucasians were also sold as slaves on the open market, and that's not including indentured servitude. Man...all men, should look in the mirror and ask themselves what they are doing to care for their fellow man. We can't keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Jillian |
| Posted by: John Clements 30-Sep-2008, 11:10 AM | ||
Exactly…slavery is slavery…no matter what. And we are all guilty. JC |
| Posted by: Patch 30-Sep-2008, 03:37 PM |
| I personally opt not to own slaves and it is also illegal. However, I do not delude myself into thinking I can stop slavery. It will exist until the end of time. Slàinte, Patch The "Keating Five" included McCain and a Bush! |
| Posted by: John Clements 30-Sep-2008, 07:30 PM | ||
Well how benevolent of you…to opt…not to own slaves. Well I think that that kind of thinking, is a problem. |
| Posted by: Patch 02-Oct-2008, 06:35 AM |
| I think it is pretty d-mn benevolent! We have people in this country who do (The Asian workforce in the restaurant business comes to mind) and and it is fairly common practice around the world. Slàinte, Patch The "Keating Five" included McCain and a Bush! |
| Posted by: Patch 02-Oct-2008, 06:40 AM | ||||
Talking about it and doing nothing is a problem too! Personally I have quit supporting the three Chinese restaurants locally who bring employees here to work for room, board and some clothing, Slàinte, Patch The "Keating Five" included McCain and a Bush! |
| Posted by: gwenlee 02-Oct-2008, 06:53 AM |
 I think we are.  |
| Posted by: Patch 02-Oct-2008, 07:15 AM | ||||
My family never owned the first slave, even the part of it from VA. My family fought with the North wich ultimately ended slavery and I can find no record where my family oppressed any Native Americans! I posted a poem on liberty and freedom (what our elections are about) and slavery was picked from it. We have neighbors who have a Native population that is doing worse than ours. Especially to the south! Slàinte, Patch The "Keating Five" included McCain and a Bush! |
| Posted by: John Clements 02-Oct-2008, 08:14 AM | ||||||
Is that to imply that I’m all talk, and no action, (when I see an injustice of any kind, much less slavery)? If so, let me ask you. Other then not buying Chinese food anymore, or possibly serving in WW2, (which in my mind was our last just war). When was the last time you held a protest sign, or marched within arms length of miss guided law enforcement, or armed troops in riot gear? Well I’m proud to say that I marched on Washington three times now, since this lying bunch of fascist’s crooks stole the last election, I’ve also marched in Newark, and twice in New York City. Why once, I even ran down and caught a purse thief, single handedly. So kindly don’t be implying that I’m all talk. JC |
| Posted by: Patch 02-Oct-2008, 10:20 AM |
| I suspect most of us have done good deeds. In discussing slavery, your suggestion was I did nothing, and I have! (one of the restaurants closed and left town) The others are feeling the pinch since "we" made it known where the employees came from and how they were/were not reimbursed for their labors. Our Constitution was amended to end the practice of slavery. I do not see either major party taking an interest in slavery issues in America today. Further, slavery also takes the form of "severe" under employment. That would include those who through social position or ethnicity can not find employment that pays a living wage! The "Constitution Party" (the one I am working for) believes that every citizen has the right to pursue the American dream! The Constitution does not guarantee that we will have the American dream bestowed upon us, only that we have the opportunity to pursue it! Slàinte, Patch The "Keating Five" included McCain and a Bush! |
| Posted by: Patch 02-Oct-2008, 11:59 AM |
| The AP released their poll figures showing Obama as pulled ahead by 7%. Zogby will probably be more accurate. Slàinte, Patch The "Keating Five" included McCain and a Bush! |
| Posted by: John Clements 02-Oct-2008, 12:54 PM | ||
There seems to be some misunderstanding here. I don’t think that I implied that you did nothing about slavery, you’re the one who started the doing nothing thing about me. Frankly, I just had a problem with you choice of words, and I quote you: “I personally opt not to own slaves” (as though you had to think about it). And as to having a restraint closed…I don’t know were you got that? As to other people not doing good deeds, I’m sure there a lot of people out there, who are not sitting on their hands. And as to the constitution, I too, try to live by the laws in it, in fact, probably as much as anybody, or even more so then most. So I'm thinking that we should just let bygones be bygones, on this one. JC |
| Posted by: Patch 02-Oct-2008, 01:27 PM |
| I would guess there is a misunderstanding. By "opting not to have slaves I indicated that I chose not to engage in that practice though there are people who do. I have always paid a "very fair" wage. I further have no use for people who take advantage of the plight or misfortune of others. THAT is how America got to the point we are at today!! With nothing being done to correct the greed and criminal thinking on either side, we will have accomplished nothing and both Representatives and Senators have indicated that is very real possibility! With McCains talk of the 1 trillion already passed to buy troubled mortgages, 800 billion in this bill and all the money spent on investment bank consolidations I see nearly 3 trillion. That folks could make us all slaves!! I am not mad at you or anyone else, only presenting my thoughts and Ideas. I realize that people are a bit tense as this is a scary situation and there is no "rule book". We have never been here before! Slàinte, Patch The "Keating Five" included McCain and a Bush! |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 02-Oct-2008, 04:22 PM | ||
We've aready been sold, some time ago. Now is when they come and solder the neck irons on us and our children. Yes, yes, off-topic. I know . . . |
| Posted by: Harlot 02-Oct-2008, 04:31 PM |
| Obama was back here in Michiagn today. Only wish they would come to some smaller towns like mine ,would really like to hear him speak not just get bits of what he says on the news. We here vote too. |
| Posted by: Patch 02-Oct-2008, 05:43 PM | ||
The last state by state breakdown I saw gave him an easy win of Michigan's Electoral College votes. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Harlot 02-Oct-2008, 06:43 PM |
| Patch what I meant was small towns. Like Kalmazoo ,Battle Creek and maybe Sturgis He was in Grand Rapids next is up by Detroit. It's not like a lot of people can take a whole day off (which would be nice) with things going like they are right now. Loss of pay for a day gas prices and then there is road work being done on US131 which you'd have to take just to get to Grand Rapids from where I live. Right now there is so many Obama signs up in my area that was a big surprise to me. When there was elections for country sheriff, lots of Republican signs.I just feel that the little towns should get the chance to. Heck CNN came though right off the toll road just because one of the camera guys wanted to eat at one of restaurants down town. Lots of people went just to see that and to ask questions. And trust me down town is not a place you'd want to be since they messed up US12 making it hard to get around. All I am saying is smaller towns need to be counted to we have questions just like bigger towns do. |
| Posted by: Dogshirt 02-Oct-2008, 07:45 PM | ||
No, Now is the time to take up arms and tell them that "We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it!" Wew were born in revolution and we can do it again!  |
| Posted by: ogdenmusic 02-Oct-2008, 08:09 PM |
| Dogshirt, I believe there are many on the sidelines waiting for the revolution. It maybe only a matter of time before the common folk and little guy has had enough and something like a revolution to take place. |
| Posted by: Patch 02-Oct-2008, 08:36 PM |
| I too live in a small town and we get no personal attention from any of the candidates. Politicians look at the number of people they can reach per stop and the amount of attention a community can generate with the media. Some of us are destined to never have a candidate visit our communities. The fact that Michigan is listed in the Obama camp causes them to concentrate in other areas they need to win. I would hate to see them extend the campaign to have more time to travel. As I recall, Carter traveled the US for 4 years before the election building support. Probably more people saw him than any other candidate before or since. I would hope he comes somewhere close enough for you to get to see him. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: John Clements 06-Oct-2008, 11:02 AM |
| So this morning I went to the Democratic Party office near me, to pick up an Obama Biden lawn sign, along with some voter registration forms to canvas my neighbor hood with. Anyway, while I was there, I shouldn’t have been surprised, but I was, to learn. That there are a lot of Democrats out there, who are going to vote for McCain, and when I asked how that could be. The answer was racism. I don’t know about you, but that leaves me empty. JC |
| Posted by: Camac 06-Oct-2008, 11:11 AM |
| JC; I take it you don't have Innumerators who go around to register people to vote. Every four to six years when a Federal Election is called (Four years now) The Innumerators come around and register you to vote. When this is finished all the registation info is forwarded to "Elections Canada" for compilation on a master list then Voter registration cards are mailed to the individual with your name address and the location and number of your voting station. To vote in a Federal Election all you need is proof of citizenship. In an Ontario Provincial Election either proof of citizenship or British Subject. Don't ask why, its the law in Ontario and its as archaic as the ark. Camac. |
| Posted by: Patch 06-Oct-2008, 11:27 AM |
| In my area there are Democrats who claim to be supporting Barr this election. Pretty much for that reason though none claim to be racist. Slainte, Patch |
| Posted by: Patch 06-Oct-2008, 11:34 AM | ||
Here we have registration at License branches and human services offices. We can register at election boards also. As long as one misses voting in no more than one election year, your registration remains valid. Changing addresses complicates matters slightly though. One must update your address with the election board. Slainte, Patch |
| Posted by: Patch 06-Oct-2008, 12:14 PM |
| If I were to bet on the election outcome today, I would bet Obama will win. He will have to drop the ball to loose now. Slainte, Patch |
| Posted by: Jillian 10-Oct-2008, 05:25 AM |
| I was just reading about Obama's affiliation with ACORN. Not a pretty one as it is heavily involved w/voter fraud and a political action ideology to infiltrate and destroy capitalism and build a socialist redistribution of wealth. These 2 candidates are driving home for me, the feeling that we are in deeper trouble than can be imagined. The banking crisis seems to permeate every level of government. Jillian |
| Posted by: John Clements 10-Oct-2008, 08:28 AM | ||
Jillian, you know the day the Berlin Wall came down I was saying that we would be next. I also predicted that we would be at war the weekend before the “inside job” of 911, (although I didn’t think that the war,(now wars), would be started in the manner that they did). That’s why one of my protest signs says…”War is our business, and business is good!” But don’t ask me how I knew these things, other then knowing that unrestricted capitalism is every bit as bad as unrestricted socialism, (just look at where we are now). Anyway, the following letter is an attempt by Michael Moor to help solve our problems. Frankly I haven’t read the entire letter yet, but I know instinctively, that it’s has to better then what we’re doing now. JC Michael Moore to me show details Oct 1 (8 days ago) Reply Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from [email protected] Friends, The richest 400 Americans -- that's right, just four hundred people -- own MORE than the bottom 150 million Americans combined. 400 rich Americans have got more stashed away than half the entire country! Their combined net worth is $1.6 trillion. During the eight years of the Bush Administration, their wealth has increased by nearly $700 billion -- the same amount that they are now demanding we give to them for the "bailout." Why don't they just spend the money they made under Bush to bail themselves out? They'd still have nearly a trillion dollars left over to spread amongst themselves! Of course, they are not going to do that -- at least not voluntarily. George W. Bush was handed a $127 billion surplus when Bill Clinton left office. Because that money was OUR money and not his, he did what the rich prefer to do -- spend it and never look back. Now we have a $9.5 trillion debt. Why on earth would we even think of giving these robber barons any more of our money? I would like to propose my own bailout plan. My suggestions, listed below, are predicated on the singular and simple belief that the rich must pull themselves up by their own platinum bootstraps. Sorry, fellows, but you drilled it into our heads one too many times: There... is... no... free... lunch. And thank you for encouraging us to hate people on welfare! So, there will be no handouts from us to you. The Senate, tonight, is going to try to rush their version of a "bailout" bill to a vote. They must be stopped. We did it on Monday with the House, and we can do it again today with the Senate. It is clear, though, that we cannot simply keep protesting without proposing exactly what it is we think Congress should do. So, after consulting with a number of people smarter than Phil Gramm, here is my proposal, now known as "Mike's Rescue Plan." It has 10 simple, straightforward points. They are: 1. APPOINT A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR TO CRIMINALLY INDICT ANYONE ON WALL STREET WHO KNOWINGLY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS COLLAPSE. Before any new money is expended, Congress must commit, by resolution, to criminally prosecute anyone who had anything to do with the attempted sacking of our economy. This means that anyone who committed insider trading, securities fraud or any action that helped bring about this collapse must go to jail. This Congress must call for a Special Prosecutor who will vigorously go after everyone who created the mess, and anyone else who attempts to scam the public in the future. 2. THE RICH MUST PAY FOR THEIR OWN BAILOUT. They may have to live in 5 houses instead of 7. They may have to drive 9 cars instead of 13. The chef for their mini-terriers may have to be reassigned. But there is no way in hell, after forcing family incomes to go down more than $2,000 dollars during the Bush years, that working people and the middle class are going to fork over one dime to underwrite the next yacht purchase. If they truly need the $700 billion they say they need, well, here is an easy way they can raise it: a) Every couple who makes over a million dollars a year and every single taxpayer who makes over $500,000 a year will pay a 10% surcharge tax for five years. (It's the Senator Sanders plan. He's like Colonel Sanders, only he's out to fry the right chickens.) That means the rich will still be paying less income tax than when Carter was president. This will raise a total of $300 billion.  Like nearly every other democracy, charge a 0.25% tax on every stock transaction. This will raise more than $200 billion in a year. c) Because every stockholder is a patriotic American, stockholders will forgo receiving a dividend check for one quarter and instead this money will go the treasury to help pay for the bailout. d) 25% of major U.S. corporations currently pay NO federal income tax. Federal corporate tax revenues currently amount to 1.7% of the GDP compared to 5% in the 1950s. If we raise the corporate income tax back to the level of the 1950s, that gives us an extra $500 billion. All of this combined should be enough to end the calamity. The rich will get to keep their mansions and their servants, and our United States government ("COUNTRY FIRST!") will have a little leftover to repair some roads, bridges and schools. 3. BAIL OUT THE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR HOMES, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BUILD AN EIGHTH HOME. There are 1.3 million homes in foreclosure right now. That is what is at the heart of this problem. So instead of giving the money to the banks as a gift, pay down each of these mortgages by $100,000. Force the banks to renegotiate the mortgage so the homeowner can pay on its current value. To insure that this help does no go to speculators and those who have tried to make money by flipping houses, this bailout is only for people's primary residence. And in return for the $100K paydown on the existing mortgage, the government gets to share in the holding of the mortgage so that it can get some of its money back. Thus, the total initial cost of fixing the mortgage crisis at its roots (instead of with the greedy lenders) is $150 billion, not $700 billion. And let's set the record straight. People who have defaulted on their mortgages are not "bad risks." They are our fellow Americans, and all they wanted was what we all want and most of us still get: a home to call their own. But during the Bush years, millions of them lost the decent paying jobs they had. Six million fell into poverty. Seven million lost their health insurance. And every one of them saw their real wages go down by $2,000. Those who dare to look down on these Americans who got hit with one bad break after another should be ashamed. We are a better, stronger, safer and happier society when all of our citizens can afford to live in a home that they own. 4. IF YOUR BANK OR COMPANY GETS ANY OF OUR MONEY IN A "BAILOUT," THEN WE OWN YOU. Sorry, that's how it's done. If the bank gives me money so I can buy a house, the bank "owns" that house until I pay it all back -- with interest. Same deal for Wall Street. Whatever money you need to stay afloat, if our government considers you a safe risk -- and necessary for the good of the country -- then you can get a loan, but we will own you. If you default, we will sell you. This is how the Swedish government did it and it worked. 5. ALL REGULATIONS MUST BE RESTORED. THE REAGAN REVOLUTION IS DEAD. This catastrophe happened because we let the fox have the keys to the henhouse. In 1999, Phil Gramm authored a bill to remove all the regulations that governed Wall Street and our banking system. The bill passed and Clinton signed it. Here's what Sen. Phil Gramm, McCain's chief economic advisor, said at the bill signing: "In the 1930s ... it was believed that government was the answer. It was believed that stability and growth came from government overriding the functioning of free markets. "We are here today to repeal [that] because we have learned that government is not the answer. We have learned that freedom and competition are the answers. We have learned that we promote economic growth and we promote stability by having competition and freedom. "I am proud to be here because this is an important bill; it is a deregulatory bill. I believe that that is the wave of the future, and I am awfully proud to have been a part of making it a reality." This bill must be repealed. Bill Clinton can help by leading the effort for the repeal of the Gramm bill and the reinstating of even tougher regulations regarding our financial institutions. And when they're done with that, they can restore the regulations for the airlines, the inspection of our food, the oil industry, OSHA, and every other entity that affects our daily lives. All oversight provisions for any "bailout" must have enforcement monies attached to them and criminal penalties for all offenders. 6. IF IT'S TOO BIG TO FAIL, THEN THAT MEANS IT'S TOO BIG TO EXIST. Allowing the creation of these mega-mergers and not enforcing the monopoly and anti-trust laws has allowed a number of financial institutions and corporations to become so large, the very thought of their collapse means an even bigger collapse across the entire economy. No one or two companies should have this kind of power. The so-called "economic Pearl Harbor" can't happen when you have hundreds -- thousands -- of institutions where people have their money. When you have a dozen auto companies, if one goes belly-up, we don't face a national disaster. If you have three separately-owned daily newspapers in your town, then one media company can't call all the shots (I know... What am I thinking?! Who reads a paper anymore? Sure glad all those mergers and buyouts left us with a strong and free press!). Laws must be enacted to prevent companies from being so large and dominant that with one slingshot to the eye, the giant falls and dies. And no institution should be allowed to set up money schemes that no one can understand. If you can't explain it in two sentences, you shouldn't be taking anyone's money. 7. NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD BE PAID MORE THAN 40 TIMES THEIR AVERAGE EMPLOYEE, AND NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD RECEIVE ANY KIND OF "PARACHUTE" OTHER THAN THE VERY GENEROUS SALARY HE OR SHE MADE WHILE WORKING FOR THE COMPANY. In 1980, the average American CEO made 45 times what their employees made. By 2003, they were making 254 times what their workers made. After 8 years of Bush, they now make over 400 times what their average employee makes. How this can happen at publicly held companies is beyond reason. In Britain, the average CEO makes 28 times what their average employee makes. In Japan, it's only 17 times! The last I heard, the CEO of Toyota was living the high life in Tokyo. How does he do it on so little money? Seriously, this is an outrage. We have created the mess we're in by letting the people at the top become bloated beyond belief with millions of dollars. This has to stop. Not only should no executive who receives help out of this mess profit from it, but any executive who was in charge of running his company into the ground should be fired before the company receives any help. 8. STRENGTHEN THE FDIC AND MAKE IT A MODEL FOR PROTECTING NOT ONLY PEOPLE'S SAVINGS, BUT ALSO THEIR PENSIONS AND THEIR HOMES. Obama was correct yesterday to propose expanding FDIC protection of people's savings in their banks to $250,000. But this same sort of government insurance must be given to our nation's pension funds. People should never have to worry about whether or not the money they've put away for their old age will be there. This will mean strict government oversight of companies who manage their employees' funds -- or perhaps it means that the companies will have to turn over those funds and their management to the government. People's private retirement funds must also be protected, but perhaps it's time to consider not having one's retirement invested in the casino known as the stock market. Our government should have a solemn duty to guarantee that no one who grows old in this country has to worry about ending up destitute. 9. EVERYBODY NEEDS TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH, CALM DOWN, AND NOT LET FEAR RULE THE DAY. Turn off the TV! We are not in the Second Great Depression. The sky is not falling. Pundits and politicians are lying to us so fast and furious it's hard not to be affected by all the fear mongering. Even I, yesterday, wrote to you and repeated what I heard on the news, that the Dow had the biggest one day drop in its history. Well, that's true in terms of points, but its 7% drop came nowhere close to Black Monday in 1987 when the stock market in one day lost 23% of its value. In the '80s, 3,000 banks closed, but America didn't go out of business. These institutions have always had their ups and downs and eventually it works out. It has to, because the rich do not like their wealth being disrupted! They have a vested interest in calming things down and getting back into the Jacuzzi. As crazy as things are right now, tens of thousands of people got a car loan this week. Thousands went to the bank and got a mortgage to buy a home. Students just back to college found banks more than happy to put them into hock for the next 15 years with a student loan. Life has gone on. Not a single person has lost any of their money if it's in a bank or a treasury note or a CD. And the most amazing thing is that the American public hasn't bought the scare campaign. The citizens didn't blink, and instead told Congress to take that bailout and shove it. THAT was impressive. Why didn't the population succumb to the fright-filled warnings from their president and his cronies? Well, you can only say 'Saddam has da bomb' so many times before the people realize you're a lying sack of shite. After eight long years, the nation is worn out and simply can't take it any longer. 10. CREATE A NATIONAL BANK, A "PEOPLE'S BANK." If we really are itching to print up a trillion dollars, instead of giving it to a few rich people, why don't we give it to ourselves? Now that we own Freddie and Fannie, why not set up a people's bank? One that can provide low-interest loans for all sorts of people who want to own a home, start a small business, go to school, come up with the cure for cancer or create the next great invention. And now that we own AIG, the country's largest insurance company, let's take the next step and provide health insurance for everyone. Medicare for all. It will save us so much money in the long run. And we won't be 12th on the life expectancy list. We'll be able to have a longer life, enjoying our government-protected pension, and living to see the day when the corporate criminals who caused so much misery are let out of prison so that we can help reacclimate them to civilian life -- a life with one nice home and a gas-free car that was invented with help from the People's Bank. Yours, Michael Moore [email protected] MichaelMoore.com P.S. Call your Senators now. Here's a backup link in case we crash that site again. They are going to attempt their own version of the Looting of America tonight. And let your reps know if you agree with my 10-point plan. |
| Posted by: Jillian 10-Oct-2008, 04:24 PM | ||
JC, Not a Mike Moore fan, but the article was right on. I agree w/you totally. Unrestricted capitalism AND unrestricted socialism are bad...they are verrry bad. Jillian |
| Posted by: Harlot 13-Oct-2008, 07:29 AM |
| I found this on yahoo this morning: A general election absentee ballot from Rensselaer County, N.Y. misspelling the name of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is seen, Friday, Oct. 10, 2008 in Sand Lake, N.Y. The absentee ballots sent to voters in Rensselaer County identified the two presidential candidates as 'Barack Osama' and 'John McCain.' In the United States, the best-known individual named Osama is Osama bin Laden, leader of the al Qaida terrorist group behind the 2001 attacks that destroyed the World Trade Center in New York City. (AP Photo/The Albany Times Union, Michael P. Farrell) So always check your spelling. |
| Posted by: maisky 14-Oct-2008, 10:35 AM |
| On the plus side, it appears that the McPain and Kalin campaign is well on track to confuse their way out of any chance of victory. |
| Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 14-Oct-2008, 11:52 AM | ||
You won't mind if I keep my fingers crossed anyway? |
| Posted by: maisky 15-Oct-2008, 04:59 AM | ||
Feel free to cross any parts of your person that you wish, but keep one hand free to toast President Elect Obama after the election. Whether the toast is a glass of single malt beverage or a "New Jersey salute" is your choice. |
| Posted by: Jillian 15-Oct-2008, 07:52 AM | ||
LOL! I like your "New Jersey salute"...so true, so true...hey originally from P'Burg! Go Stateliners! The "Big Game" isn't too far off now! Sorry...off topic. Jillian |
| Posted by: John Clements 20-Oct-2008, 07:41 AM |
| Once upon a time, if Colin Powell had run for the presidency, I would have voted for him, and now, even though he has come out and indorsed Obama. It’s too little too late. |
| Posted by: j Padraig moore 20-Oct-2008, 08:32 AM |
| I must say those of us predicting an Obama win better not count our chickens too soon... The local newspaper here endorsed McCain yesterday in a move that really surprised me. In short, their reasoning was Obama's lack of experience. Over the past couple of Presidential elections, I have been able to make a totally non-scientific, completely subjective survey, based on the amount of yard signs I see. My job allows me to travel the length and breadth of Ohio quite a few times in one year. In 2000 and 2004, the vast majority of yard signs were for W, not Gore or Kerry. This year, I see many, many McCain signs, but still see quite a few Obama ones too. I should note that the area of Ohio I live in is very, very red (conservative GOP). I am actually seeing quite a number of Obama signs in my town, whereas in '00 and "04, there were absolutely no Gore or Kerry signs. What does this mean? Probably nothing. Or can it mean a change is coming? |
| Posted by: Camac 20-Oct-2008, 08:42 AM |
| Patch; I am not 100% versed in the American Political System but when I watched the HBO movie John Adams when he became President, Jefferson, who was from a different party, had recieved the 2nd highest amount of votes and became Vice-President. Does this mean that it is possible to have a Democratic Pres. and a Republican V.P. ? Camac. |
| Posted by: j Padraig moore 20-Oct-2008, 12:11 PM | ||
Not anymore Camac. An Ammendment to the Constitution (can't recall which one) changed that possibility. But it does make you think what a McCain/Obama administration would be like! By the way, to all of our Canadian friends: if McCain/Palin are victorious in November, can we move north and become your next door neighbors? |
| Posted by: Camac 20-Oct-2008, 01:05 PM |
| j Padraig moore; Hell yes!!!! We have enough room to take the whole population of the US. and still have room for the worlds biggest party. There is a problem though. You have to leave your firearms at the border.????? Camac. Correction. Hand Guns at the Border long arms (no auto or assault) if registered are alowed. |
| Posted by: John Clements 20-Oct-2008, 01:33 PM | ||||
I agree j Padraig moore. The idea of Plain potentially being a hairs breath away from the presidency is totally unexcitable to me. And the notion of leaving America, should that happen, would be the icing on the cake, an icing which has weighed on my mind since Bush stole the 2000 election. But, the big question is where to go. Never in my life have I considered the possibility of being a man without a country. So, at the moment I think I’ll just stay here in America, and do whatever I can to effect change for the better, no matter what. JC |
| Posted by: Camac 20-Oct-2008, 01:48 PM |
| JC. You are always welcome up here in "The True North". It is said that there are places here no white man has ever been. BIG COUNTRY. REALLY BIG. Get lost in very easily. Camac. |
| Posted by: flora 20-Oct-2008, 02:19 PM |
| Wait a minute before everyone jumps ship. Let's explore that idea again. What if: McCain is President and Obama is Vice President. Could it work? Flora |
| Posted by: gwenlee 20-Oct-2008, 08:10 PM |
| LEAVE THE USA IF YOUR CANDIDATE DOESN'T GET ELECTED. PLEASE LETS GET REAL. But if you want to go, go Delta is ready when you are and so are the rest of the airlines. I cringe at the idea of these two being in office but I'm staying and believe me this country will weather the storm and we will survive. Oh by the way Bush didn't steal the election. Just my opinion. All of us have one. Oh sure a McCain/Obama ticket would work. Both have the same ideas and will head us down the same road. One will wear red and the other blue. In other words I think they both speak liberalism/socialism. |
| Posted by: Camac 20-Oct-2008, 08:15 PM |
| gwenlee; A little Socialism wouldn't hurt. Look where rampant Capitalism has gotten you. Camac. |
| Posted by: gwenlee 20-Oct-2008, 08:26 PM |
| I don't believe in sharing the wealth, it makes people lazy. I believe less government is the best government. Sharing the wealth is a phrase that has come out of Obamas mouth. Capitalism isn't the problem. Its that bunch in Washington that have forgotten why they are in Washington, why they were elected. We the people have failed to make these people accountable. |
| Posted by: John Clements 20-Oct-2008, 08:45 PM |
| What do you know about real, you’re life revolves around a fantasy? Just my opinion, all of us have one. |
| Posted by: gwenlee 20-Oct-2008, 09:34 PM | ||
JC, you don't know me. So let me tell you about my reality. My reality is I put myself though nursing school by throwing a paper route with 2 children in a car with no air conditioning and we walked part of that route 7 days a week. I asked for no government assistance nor did I expect it. I had no insurance when I had my first child and I worked to pay for the prenatal care and my husbands family helped pay the hospital bill. I know what it is like to band together to help pay for a familys members health care/prescription. I have a child with a chronic illness. I know what it is like when your spouse is laid off from his job, and I have worked the second job to make up for that lost wage. I have scrubbed floors and cleaned toilets to put a roof over my head and food on the table. Sir I live in no fantasy. But I do believe in our constitution in the ideas that brought this nation into exsitence. I am sadden that the people of this country have come to the point where hard work is being replace by entitlement. |
| Posted by: Patch 20-Oct-2008, 11:17 PM | ||
What you describe is what made/makes America great. I am guessing your children have been taught the same values. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Camac 21-Oct-2008, 06:19 AM |
| gwenlee; You are to be commended and applauded for what you did. When I said a little socialism wouldn't hurt I am not alking about the type that is certain Northern European Nations have. I'm talking about what we have. It is sort of semi-socoalism ( if I can use the term). I guess the main part is that we have Universal Health care and of course welfare for those in need (which is abused) We also have Government regulation the type that prevented our banking system from melting down and our Housing Mortgages from exploding. Our Education system is cheaper because of Government subsities and our criminal law is National not Provincial or as in your case different in each State. Maybe the best term to use is Social-Capitalism or controlled Capitalism. Camac. |
| Posted by: John Clements 21-Oct-2008, 08:31 AM |
| gwenlee; There is no doubt that you are to be commended for working hard, but then most of us do. When it comes to the constitution, (as far as I’m concerned) it was a hypocritical document before the ink dried, because this country wouldn’t have become what it is, (or should I say what it could be), if it weren’t for slavery. I mean any business is bound to succeed if it doesn’t have to pay someone to do the work, which is exactly why all our jobs are being outsourced, as we speak. You know the definition of unrestricted capitalism is fascism, and I’ll take a little socialism over fascism any day. When you get right down to it, the real “Mother Land" is Africa, which from my point of view, makes us all brothers and sisters. JC |
| Posted by: gwenlee 21-Oct-2008, 08:36 AM |
| Thank you Patch and Camac. Yes I have taught my children those values and they live it. I am not a heartless person. But I think we need to encourage people to take care of themselves. I don't have a problem with providing health care for the working poor, but they need to be out working not sitting on their bums. I don't think that people should keep having children that they can't support, I hate people taking advantage of the system. My spouse use to work for a concrete company that had drivers that would turn down a job because they would loose their medicaid and food stamps. My gosh these men had the tools to support their family and they chose not too (the company had health insurance). |
| Posted by: Camac 21-Oct-2008, 08:55 AM |
| gwenlee; People who take advantage of the system really gall me. We instituted a program here in Ontario called "Workfare" a person on welfare has to work a certain proscribe number of hours at minium wage ($6.85/hr) in order to collect public assisstance. To some extent it cut down on the abuse but not entirely as people always figure away around the rules.No system is perfect. Again you are to be commended. Camac. |
| Posted by: gwenlee 21-Oct-2008, 08:59 AM | ||
Why can't people here agree to such a program? I do believe that the majority of people would go for such a program. |
| Posted by: Camac 21-Oct-2008, 09:04 AM |
| gwenlee; It took a Conservative (Republican style) Provincial Gov. to introduce it as the N.D.P. (New Democratic Party ie. Socialist) fought it tooth and nail. So did the Liberals to some extent. (Currying votes). I'm a Liberal (Dem). and I was in favour of it. Damn good idea when it works properly. Camac. |
| Posted by: gwenlee 21-Oct-2008, 12:16 PM |
| I don't think that slavery is the only reason for where we are at as a country. That its success or lack of is because of slavery. Slavery was one of the issues that the founding fathers struggled with and an issue that we had to come to terms with. Out sourcing of our jobs is horrible. But consumers are also to blame for this . They wanted the cheapest. If we want to talk about slavery or low wages perhaps we should start a new topic. We aren't a perfect nation and I think we are going through some growing pain but for all our faults the number one place I would want to live in is here in the USA. My second choice is Alaska. Oh yeah that is the USA LOL, so I guess I'll stay in the USA and weather what ever the storm brings. And even though I may not like the person who holds the office of the president I will give him the respect due him. |
| Posted by: John Clements 21-Oct-2008, 12:48 PM |
| Slavery may not be the only reason for the success we’ve had, it’s only the main reason we got off to such a good start, and it’s still going on, in one form or another. The founding fathers sure knew what side the butter was on. Let me ask right out. Did you vote for Bush, and is so, (which I suspect is) just how do you feel about it now? And since Obama is a black man, I think slavery and the feeling of entitlement is relevant. I also respect the “person” not the title. That’s what makes the world go round. |
| Posted by: gwenlee 21-Oct-2008, 05:12 PM |
| What does entitlement have to do with Obama. Are you saying he is entitled to the presidency because he is black/white? And are your saying that people who don't vote for him will be racist? I have no problems with a persons race. I am married to a Puerto Rician/Panamanian, my brother in law is Native American, I have 2 biracial god children my personal MD is black, my insurance agent for the past 20 years is black, my lawyer is black, my dentist is black, my father is Jewish, I have Native American ancestry. I have Japanese aunt by marriage. I think you get the picture. My son once said that it would be hard for us to be prejudice because we would then have to hate ourselves. I admire people who don't sit back and blame their lack of advancement/success on others. I admire people who make it happen. My father in law worked 3 jobs to support his family of 8 children, he turned down assistance, when the kids were old enough to work they worked, brought their check home to their mother. She then put some in a savings for them and gave them some pocket money and then the rest went to the household needs. One brother in law graduated from UGA and the other from Georgia Tech both on an army ROTC scholarship. Another served in the Navy. One of my sister in law has her own successful business employing a sister. No one is entitled to anything. Yes I voted for Bush. Yes I am unhappy with the directions that this country has headed. Is it all his fault? No!! We voted for change 2 years ago and now have a democratic controlled house and senate things still haven't changed. We are still spinning our wheels. We can't fix people, life isn't alway fair. When the people and government realize that we can go forward. Okay I am done with this subject. |
| Posted by: MacFive 21-Oct-2008, 06:23 PM | ||
God bless you! You are a true American!  While this is a little off topic, I have to agree with you about President Bush. He is getting the blame for everything when in fact it is everyones fault. 1 man did not bring down the entire world wide financial system. He is just an easy target because he is unpopular right now. I do believe Republicians needs to redefine themselves. I think it was a mistake for McCain to be the Republican contender - in my opinion Mitt Romney would have been a better choice. But this thing called Obama might be too big for either of them to handle. My first reaction when I heard McCain was going to win the republican race was that Obama would win the presidential race. And if he wins I will be more than happy to see how and what he does. As someone who leans more to the conservative side that is a big step to take. But clearly to much power has been given to the corporations in this country and it is time to rein them in. |
| Posted by: Jillian 21-Oct-2008, 06:53 PM |
| Gwenlee, ...hats off to ya. I too have worked 2 jobs and put myself through undergrad and graduate school...having had a serious operation during that time and going into debt...getting help from family and working my arse off...I paid it off. I have worked in behavioral health and crisis outreach...the people I saw daily had more than I had...and they were receiving government assistance. There is an entitlement attitude and I'm tired of it too. I believe in helping those who are willing to do what they can to earn it. No one should receive something for nothing unless it's love. It is devastating to their self-esteem and self-respect to begin with. The adjudicated youth I worked with always said they were glad I was caring w/them but made them work for everything. They earned it...and they felt good about it. It's okay not having everything you think you should have, and that is not including the necessities. I agree, unrestrained capitalism has created havoc and needs regulation, but not increasing taxes to fund socialistic style programs that often are wasteful w/money because government needs a beaurocracy to run anything. Jillian |
| Posted by: gwenlee 21-Oct-2008, 07:19 PM |
| I too was disappointed that McCain got the nomination. I was for Mitt Romney. Both parties need to redefine themselves. Jillian and everyone else who worked hard to get where you are at with out expecting a hand out. Take a bow and pat yourself on the back. I too salute you.  You are what makes the USA great. Just because we are tired of entitlements don't mean we are against helping those in need. It goes back to the saying give a man a fish he will eat for a day, but teach him to fish...I truly love my country. I am hoping when this election is over that people are going to put their political differences a side and do what is in the best interest of our nation. Okay, so I'm not finished with this subject. I have been called opinionated. |
| Posted by: John Clements 21-Oct-2008, 08:13 PM | ||
Ok…Ok…So your not a raciest, and you work hard, but although the democrats have a majority in the house and senate they don’t have enough votes to be veto proof, which is why they are still stifled. And let’s not forget Joe Leibermen. Now were done. |
| Posted by: gwenlee 21-Oct-2008, 08:25 PM |
| JC folks like you keep folks like me on our toes. I would gladly sit down with you and have a cup of coffee and enjoy a good conversation. You're okay. |
| Posted by: MacFive 21-Oct-2008, 08:58 PM |
| We have a saying in the church I go to, "We give a hand up, not a hand out" I really hope that everyone just puts aside these nasty accusations on both sides of the isle. Its almost as if you are either born a republican or democrat which results in a life long bashing of the other party. I hear people bashing Sarah Palin from things they have heard on the internet. Not just disagreements politically, but down right nasty stuff that is personal. I have to say that from watching Obama he does not seem to be doing alot of bashing directly, unless his henchmen are! |
| Posted by: Jillian 22-Oct-2008, 06:55 AM |
| Gwenlee, MacFive, JC, I agree w/you all. Some people may say, "Both sides have been the problem" and not mean it. But I really believe our 2 political parties have intentionally split the American people by spinning campaigns and promoting ideological platforms that trick us into believing we must be either Republican or Democrat. I would bet that for the most part, Americans are moderate - believing that the answers are somewhere in-between...life is surely not black or white...there is alot of gray. Whomever becomes President should put the line-item-veto into law...talk about getting rid of unnecessary pork that both sides like to insert! I think Clinton and "W" both tried to put it in w/no success. I wonder why? I am missing something? You know, debating like this really does make me smile...Americans are still a feisty bunch...and we're still allowed to have our opinions and respect each other for our passions. Hats off to all of you who care enough to fight.  Jillian |
| Posted by: John Clements 22-Oct-2008, 08:49 AM |
| Since most of you know that I believe that the Bush administration was behind the attack on 911. I can’t help but think that Joe Biden, (being on the inside) agrees with my thinking, (along with millions of others out there) and so his warning to expect another crisis, should Obama win the presidency, along with an appeal for help. Is simply because he expects to gain a majority in both the house and the senate, and there for will be able to have a “real” investigation, as to who the “real” terrorists are. You know it’s all just a big chess game out there, and one has to be able to anticipate your appoints next move. You all may think I’m crazy, but what could be crazier then what has happened to us, since Bush got into office. JC |
| Posted by: j Padraig moore 22-Oct-2008, 10:49 AM | ||
I think it is our celtic blood.  |
| Posted by: Patch 22-Oct-2008, 11:37 AM | ||||
I do belive you are right! For now the protest is verbal but it still puts one in the cross hairs of the establishment. One should vote carefully and then become very vocal activists working to return our government to honesty, integrity and both fiscal and moral responsibility. It is a monumental task and many of us will never see it happen. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: John Clements 22-Oct-2008, 02:06 PM | ||
I don’t know gwenlee…you and I over a cup of coffee? You know I’ve never hit a woman, (mostly because I’m afraid of getting the crap kicked out of me), and you know I wouldn’t want to push it. Hey! Maybe if we had a 350lb Sumo Wrestler to referee? Don’t you wish all differences were little ones? JC |
| Posted by: Jillian 23-Oct-2008, 04:36 AM | ||
JC, Always remember ... BREATH. When we're so amped up, it makes it difficult to make clear decisions.  Maybe tea would be a better idea!! Jillian |
| Posted by: Patch 23-Oct-2008, 07:06 AM |
| I have voted and my work for Chuck Baldwin (Constitution party) will have little effect. Now I am just watching. From the EC vote totals now (Zogby polls) I expect Obamna to win though the decision may be made in the House of Representatives. I still believe there is a segment of the population out there which may alter the poll results. They will say one thing publicly and do another in the voting booth. As a member of the Constitution party my political beliefs are far from those held by Obama. However, I am far more concerned about who is elected to the House and Senate. That will determine the course the nation will follow. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Camac 23-Oct-2008, 07:40 AM |
| Patch; I am the first to admit that I am not well versed in the American Political System and there are times I sit scratching my head and trying to figure out how your system works and how anything ever gets done . As to your election process well I give up it is just to complicated. I like it simple. I go to the Polling station, identify myself get a folded up ballot, go to the booth, unfold the ballot, find my candidates name, mark an X in the circle beside the name ,(with the pencil that is provided), refold the ballot and put it in the ballot box. Finished. Camac. |
| Posted by: John Clements 23-Oct-2008, 07:46 AM | ||
BREATH...You mean I’m supposed to exhale that breath I took when the doctor smacked me on the bum. I sure pity anyone within nose shot, when I finely do let it go. Hey…There’s an idea….Keepsake Close Pins, at my funeral? Of course that’s assuming someone shows up? JC |
| Posted by: gwenlee 23-Oct-2008, 10:03 AM | ||
JC I am sure we could have a peaceful conversation over coffee about anything except politics. Actually I don't tend to discuss politics in a social situation. And I don't get fighting mad unless you wrong me or one of mine. Then look out. But seriously when it comes to having conversations with friends I would rather talk about anything else and leave politics at the door. The only thing you have to fear from me is that I might get you on the dance floor if they play a reel or jig, I love to Scottish Country Dance. |
| Posted by: Patch 23-Oct-2008, 11:47 AM | ||
Our system always allowed for 'issues." It was much less complicated in the 60's and early 70's. We have gone from paper ballots to punch cards (yes hanging chads) and touch screen computers. We are now back to paper ballots. Though I was never involved in counting votes, as a political insider I knew most of the tricks used to cheat on all systems. If the public knew, even less would probably vote. 24/7 television has only made the situation worse. Your system is the easiest to monitor and apparently requires only that you research your candidates. When I was at the "Election Board" office I saw people with notes (I assume about the issues) waiting to vote. You in Canada are fortunate and were it not for your firearm laws, I would consider Canada were I ever to move from here. I doubt you would care to see a bunch of conservatives moving there though. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: John Clements 23-Oct-2008, 11:54 AM | ||||
Hey gwenlee… are we talking “Irish Coffee”? You know my two best friends are my wife and Daughter, (and we fight all the time). Other then them I have lots of friends, (at least until they get to know me). Now I’m not looking for a fight here, but. I think that not discussing “Taboo Topics”, (hey I should write that one down), “logically”… is one of the main reasons we’re all so divided today. So I say lets down that Irish coffee, put on the gloves, and have at it. I mean who know… maybe we’ll become best of friends? Got to go now, the paint is freezing on my brushes. JC PS: Dancing is good. |
| Posted by: gwenlee 23-Oct-2008, 12:24 PM | ||||||
I do talk about politics but like I said I would rather talk about other things. Good thing that your wife and daughter are your 2 best friends, as it should be, and I am sure they know how to keep the man in their life in line without him realizing it. So sure, if we are ever in the same area a of cup of brew (any kind) would be great. No gloves just good conversation about politics or whatever. But even if we should never meet face to face, I would still like to think we can be friends, friends don't have to agree on everything, thank the good lord. And I think when all is said and done we want what is best for our country. |
| Posted by: Camac 23-Oct-2008, 02:35 PM |
| Patch; Up here we have Consevatives, they are called Torys and their colour is Blue. We have Liberals they are called Grits and their colour is Red. We have the New Democratic Party,NDP socialist and their colour is orange And we have the Bloc Quebecois Seperatist from Quebec their colour is also blue but nobody outside of Quebec votes for them You can be a Red Tory (Liberal Conservative) or a Blue Liberal (Conservative Liberal which I am) Limited socialism. If you are NDP you are either a hardliner or a moderate. Confused? Oh yeah you can also be an Independent but that and $1.25 will get you a cup of coffee. There are also the Marijauana Party, The Rhinocerous Party, Libertarians, Marxist/Leninists and Communists. Fun for everyone. Lastly the Green Party, Enviromentalist. None of these parties have a seat in Parliament. Camac. |
| Posted by: gwenlee 23-Oct-2008, 03:04 PM |
| How interesting Camac Torys are blue my favorite color. Didn't they once support a king named George? In the south GRITS means Girls Raised In the South or it is the left overs of some kind of corn and we leave the red to the Red Hat Society.  If we put the two colors together it would make purple which is my very favorite color and between the two we could rule the world and make heads roll.  Okay I made no sense, I am just a little punch drunk with all the politics --I gotta get a life. SCOTCH ANYONE? |
| Posted by: Camac 23-Oct-2008, 03:27 PM |
| Gwenlee; They still do but her name is Elizabeth. I"ll have a pepsi while you have your scotch. Oh yeah I'm also a Monarchist and Nationalist. That should really confuse. Camac. |
| Posted by: Patch 23-Oct-2008, 05:09 PM | ||
I knew you also had an assortment of parties but at least you limit the amount of time they can campaign. If one is certain his party's candidate is in line with the party beliefs, you do not have to even watch the campaign. I could stand 35 days but not the year or more we have down here. All of our campaign money could have been better spent here this year. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Patch 23-Oct-2008, 05:18 PM | ||
That Scotch is beginning to look good. I have a bottle put away for my "last drink with friends and family." It is top shelf and I am thinking that maybe the times warrant drinking it now. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: flora 23-Oct-2008, 05:25 PM |
| They mentioned today that Obama has raised 600 million for his campaign and McCain stayed at 83 million. Does that give indication of how the government will be handled when they are elected president? Not even touching what could have been done with that type of money. Flora |
| Posted by: Patch 23-Oct-2008, 05:37 PM | ||
McCain is relying a lot on "soft money" from outside groups. I am not sure that has to be reported. Obama also has access to the same through his support groups. It explains why McCain is so mad. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Patch 23-Oct-2008, 05:42 PM | ||||
Sorry. My last comment initially looked like I meant the Canadian money would have been better spent here. We need the charity but it is not your place to support us. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: flora 23-Oct-2008, 05:47 PM | ||
Patch I am not sure what you mean by this. Flora |
| Posted by: Patch 23-Oct-2008, 06:36 PM |
| McCain claims he had an agreement with Obama to use only Federal funds. McCain did and Obama didn't. That was one of the times when his temper became apparent during the debates. McCain brought up the agreement and indicated Obama could not be trusted. It has also come up regularly in e-mails from the RNC. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: flora 23-Oct-2008, 06:52 PM |
| Ok. Gotcha. I had heard that they had both agreed but I didn't see McCain lose his temper. I would like both to publish accounts of every donation received. It is hard to believe in today's economy that most of the donations where received by individuals and under $100. Flora |
| Posted by: Patch 23-Oct-2008, 07:31 PM |
| He didn't loose it but you could see the rage come over his face, clenched teeth and flexing jaw muscles eyes squinted. He was facing away from the audience (diagonally) and looking at Obama from the side. As I recall Obama ignored the remark and talked about something else. I have to give McCain credit in that he did contain himself through the debates, something he does not do too well in the Senate. Like Vegas, what happens in the Senate stays in the Senate, sort of. He probably has more confidence there. Donations are reported. A lot of Obama's donations come from people who have never been involved in the process before. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Camac 23-Oct-2008, 07:38 PM |
| Patch; The election cost Canadian Tax payers $300,000,000.00. This was an election that no one wanted and had the lowest turn out in history. It also really POed the people especially since we got what we started with another Conservative Minority. The Liberals took a butt kicking and most blame it on the Leader Stephan Dion and his Carbon Tax. There are now preperation going on for a Liberal Leadership Convention as Dion will be stepping down. . Camac. PS. I don't think the $300,000,000,.00 would help you guys very much. Even up here thats lunch money. |
| Posted by: Patch 23-Oct-2008, 07:48 PM |
| We may be tankful for nickles and dimes one of these days. That does seem wasteful but I suspect the cost of our election will exceed that many times over. We have one every two years and throw another in locally for taxes and such sometimes yearly. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Jillian 23-Oct-2008, 09:25 PM |
| "Confused? Oh yeah you can also be an Independent but that and $1.25 will get you a cup of coffee. There are also the Marijauana Party, The Rhinocerous Party, Libertarians, Marxist/Leninists and Communists. Fun for everyone. Lastly the Green Party, Enviromentalist. None of these parties have a seat in Parliament." Camac (Couldn't get my "quote" thingy to work...hmmm) Camac, if the Green Party and the Marijuana Party got together, they could be self-sustained...grow it AND smoke it! Sorry, it was there....couldn't resist!! Jillian |
| Posted by: flora 24-Oct-2008, 05:50 AM |
| The green party would label it organic and charge more for. Flora |
| Posted by: gwenlee 24-Oct-2008, 07:14 AM | ||
Oh Patch your are so right Scotch with some friend and family sounds too good and no time is better than now. And maybe a little wine and cheese.  |
| Posted by: Patch 24-Oct-2008, 07:21 AM |
| The wine and cheese sound good too! Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Camac 24-Oct-2008, 07:27 AM |
| HEY; HOW ABOUT SOME PEPSI. Camac   |
| Posted by: Patch 24-Oct-2008, 07:32 AM | ||
That has been my drink of choice for many years. I hope drinking scotch is like riding a bicycle in that the skill never leaves you. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Camac 24-Oct-2008, 07:40 AM |
| Patch; From what I've been told in know time at all you'll falling down all over the place just like when you learned to ride a bike.  |
| Posted by: Patch 24-Oct-2008, 07:55 AM | ||
That is not all bad! Just depends on where you fall down. It should always be in good company. I just got Zogby's Electoral College poll for today and It gives Obama 273 votes, McCain 174 votes and there are 91 undecided votes. Since, I believe, that leaves Obama short just a few votes (unless the polls are wrong and they could be this year) McCain can not win. If Obama gains no more votes, it will be decided in the new House of Representatives. In January "09". WHAT A YEAR!!!! Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Camac 24-Oct-2008, 08:01 AM |
| Patch; Please explain decided in the House of Representatives??????? Camac |
| Posted by: Patch 24-Oct-2008, 08:59 AM | ||
If neither candidate gets the required number of electoral college votes, then the incoming House of representatives vote to determine the winner. It would be based on which party controls the house as to who wins the presidency. The actual popular vote means nothing. The EC voters are not bound to vote as their state did, though they usually do. Sort of screwed up isn't it? Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: John Clements 24-Oct-2008, 09:13 AM | ||||
You’re to fast foe me Patch. Dave; I’m not positive about this myself, but I believe Patch is referring the Electoral College. Where the will of the people can be overturned by a vote of our representatives It’s the difference between a “true” democracy, and a Democratic Republic, or in other words. A way for those in power to stay in power, somewhat absurd, isn’t it? JC |
| Posted by: Camac 24-Oct-2008, 09:32 AM |
| Patch & JC; So basically what you are saying is that the popular vote (will of the people) doesn't mean a thing. Your Electorial College I know about but this House thing threw me. Up here like you we have Party Conventions in which a Leader is chosen by delegates sent from each Riding (District). Each Riding represents a seat in Parliament. An Election is called and the Party that gets the Majority of Seats forms the Government and the Leader of that Party is Prime Minister but can only sit in Parliament if he won his seat. The same goes for Ministers. They must be elected to Parliament. Now if there is no Majority the Party with the highest number of seats forms a Minority Government (Actually its good for the country as everyone has to co-operate) If the Minority Government is defeated in a no-confidence vote the Prime Minister asks the Govenor General to disolve Parliament and call an Election. The GC also has the options of asking the Party with the next highest amount of seats if it can form a coalition and Govern. If not its back to the polls. So as you can see the Popular Vote means everything in our Elections. Camac. PS The last Minority Government before our Election was the most rancourous in History. It was open Warfare in Parliament. |
| Posted by: Patch 24-Oct-2008, 09:52 AM |
| I apologize for all the missing letter "h's." I got a new keyboard and something is wrong with the "h." Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 24-Oct-2008, 10:16 AM |
| The electoral college was originally a compromise solution that served two purposes. First, and of lesser importance, was to insulate the election of the president from the passions of public opinion which could be easily swayed. Secondly was to prevent the larger and more populous states from being too powerful. The system chosen was meant to give smaller states an equal voice in the elections. The electoral college itself is made up of a number of electors equal to the number of senators and representatives of the various states. (Washington DC was later given electors equal to the number of electors of the smallest state). Currently, there are 538 eledtors, 270 needed to win. The electors may not be members of congress nor any national office holder (whether elected or appointed). The election is actually to choose the electors to represent a state (each elector being pledged to a particular candidate). The electoral college then meets later (now, sometime in December; the date used for elections has changed a few times over the last two hundred plus years) and officially elects the president. It is possible for someone to not have a majority of the popular vote and yet win a majority of electorial college votes. This has happened three times: Rutherford Hayes in 1876, Benjamin Harrison in 1888 and George Bush in 2000. Originally, the vote was for president only and the runner up was selected as vice president, but each elector had two votes for president. In the election of 1800, the election was tied between Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr. The elction then went to the house where the vote was tied thirty times, finally , Jefferson was selected as president and Burr as vice president. After that, the system used today of electing a presidential/vice presidential ticket was enacted. |
| Posted by: Patch 24-Oct-2008, 11:30 AM |
| Ok, at 270 by Zogby's polling numbers, Obama has enough votes now. For some reason the number 276 stuck in my mind. Thanks Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: John Clements 24-Oct-2008, 11:31 AM | ||
Looks like I’ll be going without dinner tonight. The way things are going these days, I might as well get used to it. Carolina; Thanks for ironing it out. Patch; You needn’t apologies for missed placed letters, least of all to me, because it’s me that defective, not my keyboard. JC |
| Posted by: Patch 24-Oct-2008, 12:05 PM |
| I buy TV dinners that microwave in 5 min. Also, a crock pot is great. I throw whatever I have in it in the AM and at night it is ready. I have raided it for a late lunch already and if you do not mind crunchy vegetables that too works. I imagine you have gotten the e-mails with the text just a bunch of really mis-spelled words. When you start reading, your mind quickly allows you to pick up enough to read it. My mind no longer sees the "h" character as missing. Spell check does not always pick up on it either. I never consider the spelling and grammar in reading posts, only the thoughts conveyed. There have certainly been some "warm" discussions about the election this year. Probably intensified by the ominous economic reports. I am looking at the Dow dropping into the 7000's at close today. That would be half it's recent high. Unfortunately neither presidential candidate can fix this. We will have to live through this, or not, based on our situation, condition or preparedness. At the first hint of unrest, I expect Obama will try to take our firearms. McCain will probably take a little longer to do the same thing. It sure isn't pretty. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 24-Oct-2008, 01:11 PM |
| On the McCain side, the question of style versus substance has been answered. Following is an excerpt from the news. An acclaimed celebrity makeup artist for Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin collected more money from John McCain's campaign than his foreign policy adviser. Amy Strozzi, who works on the reality show "So You Think You Can Dance" and has been Palin's traveling stylist, was paid $22,800, according to campaign finance reports for the first two weeks in October. In contrast, McCain's foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, was paid $12,500, the report showed. It's always a good idea to have a firm grasp on your priorities. |
| Posted by: Patch 24-Oct-2008, 02:34 PM | ||
That definitely shows misguided priorities. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Harlot 24-Oct-2008, 03:11 PM | ||
Why should it cost that much for her to have a (what) stylist when everyone thinks she's sooooo pretty. Really now she could go to a drug store or Walmart and buy that make-up for a lifetime of what she pays someone to do her make-up and hair. Heck I do it cheaper then that. Thats just wrong in my book! |
| Posted by: Patch 24-Oct-2008, 06:59 PM |
| It isn't unusual. I expect mcCain is getting "make overs" too. Clinton was getting hair cuts at $1000 or more. They seem to think that their social level in our society comes with certain entitlements. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: MacFive 24-Oct-2008, 08:54 PM |
| Tonight I was reading an article from a site that provides news from an Africa country when a political advertisment began. It asked who was better for Africa - Obama or McCain - and it linked directly to Obama's campaign page. So, can someone explain to me what Africa has to do with American politics or am I completely missing something here? |
| Posted by: John Clements 24-Oct-2008, 09:51 PM | ||
Hi Paul: I think that Africa has a lot to do with it, just like the rest of the world does. Anyway while watching Keith Olbermann on Countdown tonight, he showed a world wide poll, which favored Obama, “everywhere”, except for Sudan and of all places, Cuba, who favored McCain. Could it be that we have come full circle, from when the allied forces stood up to Germany, Italy, and Japan? Except now it’s the other way around? After all we did attack, and are still occupying Iraq, which had nothing to do with 911. |
| Posted by: Patch 25-Oct-2008, 12:03 AM |
| I can not explain the connection. These are strange times we now live in. For those of us who live long enough the tangled webs in the hidden workings of govt. will be revealed. I suspect if we pay attention we will see many more strange things happen! Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: flora 25-Oct-2008, 05:06 AM |
| I wonder if whomever wins will be more careful of the way the tide of the American people are feeling. I voted yesterday and I was very impressed by the attitude of the people. I don't think if push comes to shuv, the people will take much more. Flora |
| Posted by: Patch 25-Oct-2008, 05:45 AM |
| With the establishment of the "North American Command" (Homeland Security) I suspect the Govt is planning for the need to use troops on us. They just made a division trained in urban fighting in Iraq for two years part of the command and the initial news release was they were to be used for "civil uprisings" among other things! That is us! After media attention and public comment they revised the statement and removed civil uprisings. The last statement is pure BS!! So much for the Constitution and "Posse Comitatus" (the prohibition on using troops as police on US soil) I believe the people will now have to take whatever or suffer the consequences. I hope I am wrong. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Harlot 25-Oct-2008, 07:29 AM | ||
This election is the biggest watched one ever. It's like everyone looks to the US for how they should be living or they are just tried of how the US has effective their lives. The War,Job Lost and Wall Street ,I watch it because I want to know who has the better plan for us, or who could screw it up worst then what it is now. Could be that's why they watch. |
| Posted by: Patch 26-Oct-2008, 09:55 AM | ||||
Since what we do and what happens to us affects the whole world you are probably right. I am, certain that some countries hope we survive this and there are those who wish the opposite for us. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Camac 26-Oct-2008, 10:37 AM |
| Patch; I know we sure hope you pull out of this. If you guys go down the tube we will probaly follow with the next flush. Camac. |
| Posted by: Patch 26-Oct-2008, 11:47 AM | ||
I sure hope we do too. For our well being and the well being of everyone else! I had commented early on that we would probably pull the world down with us. Since this is completely "uncharted territory" it is hard to say what will happen. The true extent of the crisis has been kept under wraps but the govt here has taken steps that would indicate that the situation is much worse than we are being told. The lady who co-authored the book which has been considered the definitive history of the "crash of 29" said they (the govt.) have this situation all wrong. She is in her 90's and very spry and alert. In 29, most banks were basically sound and the bank crisis was caused by fear and panic after the market crashed. The "margin ridden" stock market was the culprit. Now the banking system is not sound and the lack of cash flow has affected jobs and the stock market which again was operating on a margin of unbelievable proportions. The extent of the "leveraged buying is largely unknown and that is still driving the wild swings in the markets. When the Dow, Futures, govt securities and precious metals are all down at the same time it indicates that the money withdrawn from the market went to repay stock loans and not to "safe havens." Lower prices would help everyone out of this but for some reason the govt wants to maintain current prices. I need to get some of my old text books out again. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 26-Oct-2008, 03:10 PM | ||
I need to get my camping gear and survival supplies out again. |
| Posted by: Antwn 26-Oct-2008, 03:35 PM | ||
Having America in the world is like being stuck in an elevator with an 800 pound gorilla. You're going to watch its every move because no matter what it does it will affect you in a big way. This is why everyone's concerned about our election, financial situation and internal affairs. |
| Posted by: Antwn 26-Oct-2008, 04:29 PM |
| No matter who's elected they'll inherit a huge host of problems and not insignificant ones. They both talk big as though they're great visionaries with high hopes for great accomplishments, but I wonder to what extent either are up to the challenge. Neither has a mighty sceptre that they can swing and say "off with his head" yet both would have us believe they can make magic at will. I think Obama is singing the moderate mainstream song but if elected will turn out to be far more liberal than he presents himself to be now, and McCain has produced the Palin product which tells me his capacity to make reasoned strategic judgements is lacking, despite his vast experience blah blah blah. Our two party system always seems to present a lesser of evils choice for me, but maybe my expectations are too high. The new anointed one will have his work cut out for him. Lets hope he's at least smart enough to hire a smart cabinet, and doesn't waste energy on frivolous new cabinet posts like Technology Czar or Global Warming Guru. Actually those would be scary new posts, because it would mean FEMA style fingers would be stuck in more and more pies, government control exerted in more areas which usually means freedom and efficiency are compromised. "Its a hard raaaain's gonna fall" - yes Mr. Dylan, prophetic you were. |
| Posted by: Patch 26-Oct-2008, 05:05 PM |
| You read the situation correctly. We are just going to have to weather this storm. It is obvious that no one can fix it, just treat the symptoms. Slàinte, Patch |
