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lolly 
Posted: 13-Oct-2003, 03:34 PM
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after reading that whole thing on halloween a question came to mind. what do you think it is about human nature that makes a lot of people want to classify themselves into a religious group(i.e. a group of people with the same religious beleifs)? i think i am going to classify myself so i am not misunderstood. this is a question about human nature not specifically about religion.but since the two often go hand in hand it should be interesting to see the results of me asking this question.

lauren

p.s. can you tell i am a college student? wink.gif


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Shadows 
Posted: 13-Oct-2003, 04:18 PM
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Basic human nature has a desire to belong to something, being alone is not a good feeling to most!
Religion fills that void and helps most feel normal.

The loner's however can not relate to group mentality and are often set apart by secular groups. This neither makes it right nor wrong... it is a personal decission, and is between the person and the god!

Most of the great thinkers of the ages were loners!


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One can not profess to be of "GOD" and show intolerence and prejudice towards the beliefs of others.

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Is iomadh duine laghach a mhill an Creideamh.
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lolly 
Posted: 13-Oct-2003, 04:54 PM
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thanks for responding. the reason i asked is b/c i grew up christian but i don't feel like i fit into that group of people. therefore i always find this an interesting question. when i asked that i already had an idea(basically what you said) of what i thought i just am interested of othere peoples opinions.

lauren
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barddas 
Posted: 14-Oct-2003, 11:16 AM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ Oct 13 2003, 06:18 PM)

Most of the great thinkers of the ages were loners!

You figured me out Shadows!!!!!
biggrin.gif wink.gif

That explains a few things around here.... we rebels LOL!


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birddog20002001 
Posted: 14-Oct-2003, 12:23 PM
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In my opinion the most natural type of leadership is the dictatorship (I am not condoning dictators). However it is not often specifically called a dictatorship. The person with not only the ability to appear the strongest, has the most aggressive determination (not necessarily the most aggressive, but the one who will not be put off by a no) and also charisma is often the leader of any group. It is said if you look at the lineage of any king the first one will be a good soldier. People follow the person not necessarily the idea. Take Martin Luther of instance we know that he tacked the 99 thesis on the doors of the church as a protest to the liberalization of the church. I can't name any one of those 99 point but I can tell you that there are now protestant churches of many denominations in particular Lutherans. People like to be told what to think (it is much easier) and once you tell them they will often defend "their" ideas to the death, because of the attraction to the leader. Also in my opinion almost all people have a superiority complex they want to be part of an elite group, to be better than every body else. I feel that way and I think if most people were honest with themselves they would say they were also. This is not necessarily a bad thing I use my pride not to berate others but to push myself to always perform in a professional manner always trying to out perform myself. (So always use your superpowers for good not evil).

P.S. I hope I didn't offend anyone, I hope my opinion helps you in your search for the truth


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RavenWing 
Posted: 14-Oct-2003, 01:10 PM
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This type of question is exactly what I have been wating on here!


I can tell you from experience the hardest thing I ever did was realize that I did not fit the "group" in which I was raised. I identify myself as Wiccan, but in reality there is no group that fully encompasses my beliefs. In Wicca, I am what is known as a solitary, which means I do not belong to a coven, or official group of people. It is a very liberating experience to know that it is ok to be alone, in any type of situation whether it is religious or not.


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Eclectic_Stag 
Posted: 14-Oct-2003, 04:44 PM
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I'm also travelling a solitary path being that of eclectic Shamanism. But although liberating in one way I find it lonely in others. Still, this is the path I was drawn to and it is very rewarding for me. As to classing myself I'm of the species Homo Sapien (although in recent years I'm really begining to question "Sapien" part...) as we're all related to a common ancestor.
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lolly 
Posted: 14-Oct-2003, 10:22 PM
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wow i knew that that question would get people talking but wow i love reading other's opinions b/c they make me think about what i believe even more.

lauren
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RavenWing 
Posted: 16-Oct-2003, 08:25 AM
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QUOTE (Eclectic_Stag @ Oct 14 2003, 10:44 PM)
I'm also travelling a solitary path being that of eclectic Shamanism. But although liberating in one way I find it lonely in others.

I can see your point. I try to combat that with some fellowship with others.
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Shadows 
Posted: 16-Oct-2003, 09:05 AM
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I also am a solitary! BUT... I have 8 other friends that are also!
When we meet or gather, either all of us or some, great things happen. Sometimes this is only once or twice a year, I suggest you seek out others that feel as you do, it is often easy as the power will draw you to each other. It does not mean you become part of a group, but more so an occasional gathering of the powers that can make the feelings of loneliness dissapate.
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Elspeth 
Posted: 16-Oct-2003, 09:18 AM
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I wonder if the question is more about the way people tick more than about religions. I mean I have been part of conventional organized Christianity all of my life and I adhere to those beliefs, and yet I have never felt part of the group. I know when I go to church on Sunday I am not one of the group, I am outside of the norm.

It took me until I was 40 to really come to terms with that.

I agree many need to be part of a group, get their idenity from that, be it a religious group or the PTA. But that has never been me.

And I agree as well, many do not want to think for themselves. It appears to be the nature of most people.

So, in all walks of life you find we odd ducks who just don't quite fit in. But a question - do we really want to? Or do we like walking our own path? I have to confess, I do.


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lolly 
Posted: 16-Oct-2003, 12:12 PM
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you hit on what i was questioning exactly. i personally enjoy walking my own path b/c i believe that a person's faith(whatever it may be) is a very personal thing. i think it is something you have to discover on your own whether it be by thinking about it, reading about it ,talking about it, ect. i know that i personally love to talk about religion b/c it helps me clarify what i believe in as well as understand other people. when it comes to walking you own path or belonging to a group i think it depends on the personality. i mean me personally i am not comfortables following a grp when it comes to religion b/c it feels confining to me b/c i have always been an independent thinker. but other people might not feel that way or they might be more comfortable in a group. what do yall think?
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Eclectic_Stag 
Posted: 16-Oct-2003, 12:47 PM
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I'm only recently begining to meet Pagans in the local area and have finally found one person who's a bit further down the Shaman path than I but it's nice to be with people who share a similar viewpoint. This sunday I travel to the Netherlands to spend 4 days with a family who are all Pagan and live on the edge of vast woodlands. I cant wait biggrin.gif

Shamanism (as far as I'm aware of) has always been a solitary spiritual path. Saying this it has been documented that Shamans do group together when it is called for. I personally would be comfortable discussing my beliefs with other Shamans but as for practicing Shamanism in a group... I'd really have to be able to trust them, especially if we were Journeying.
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McHaggis 
Posted: 16-Oct-2003, 03:32 PM
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As far as religion goes, I'm pretty eclectic myself. Grew up with The Lutherans, stopped going to church when I was about 15. Married a Christian girl, divorced same, re-united with same and ended up going to a Lutheran College back in Minneapolis (BA- Ancient Near Eastern History-minor in religion). Split up with ex-wife again while still in school.....

Gave religion a wide berth for a long time. Dated a Wiccan, found out that she was as narrow-minded in her beliefs as the Christians she disliked so much. Stayed clear of religions and churches for about 30 years.

Consider myself agnostic in the classical sense, literally meaing "I don't know."
Maybe there are higher spirits and such, but maybe not: I don't personally know.

However, I do take my dear old Mom to church on occasion and have not been struck by lightning.

So I say to each their own on this topic with the following caveat: If you'r going to believe in something, be well informed about what you profess. Do your historical homework and don't hate somebody for their belief system..unless said system preaches hatred of those who do not toe the same religious line. Then use situational ethics.

RON


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Shadows 
Posted: 16-Oct-2003, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE (Eclectic_Stag @ Oct 16 2003, 01:47 PM)
I'm only recently begining to meet Pagans in the local area and have finally found one person who's a bit further down the Shaman path than I but it's nice to be with people who share a similar viewpoint. This sunday I travel to the Netherlands to spend 4 days with a family who are all Pagan and live on the edge of vast woodlands. I cant wait biggrin.gif

Shamanism (as far as I'm aware of) has always been a solitary spiritual path. Saying this it has been documented that Shamans do group together when it is called for. I personally would be comfortable discussing my beliefs with other Shamans but as for practicing Shamanism in a group... I'd really have to be able to trust them, especially if we were Journeying.

ES,
When I said we gather and great things happen I was not refering to practicing our crafts together, more an exchange and flow of powers takes place, we do hold a circle and pray.

Let me explain my beliefs a little more:

I lean more towards native american paganism, I call myself Wiccan only because that is what paganism is labeled now a days. I believe in all creation as equal, I thank that which I consume for giving it's life so I may survive. I hold "all" of nature in the same light I see myself. Father Creater and Mother Earth are my gods, as well as a few others from Celtic beliefs.

As far as practicing Journeying and Shape Changing... I see these as solitary events unless a complete trust is present... and I need say no more on that, because you know!
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