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| Celtic Radio Community > Historical Archive > Slavery Through History. |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 09-Jul-2008, 05:46 PM |
| First let me make it clear that I don't want to start a hot topic about who's against or who's offended. This is not about opinions this is about its history. History has not always been beautiful and great there are some events that were pretty ugly and disturbing...slavery is one of them. Even today there are some countries that still practice slavery,maybe the word is not use outloud but it is practiced all the same. Vikings raided countrysides and took women and men as slaves in their camps or sold them at markets, Romans used childrens as slaves and I can go back to ancient times with the Egyptians. So what was the purpose of it? Was it to feel superior or was it in the culture of the time? Even today there is a kind of "modern" slavery in our world even if we want to deny it it's there. What do you know about slavery and its origins? I'm curious. LOA |
| Posted by: Camac 09-Jul-2008, 06:17 PM |
| LOA; Slavery is as old as the Human Race and is embedded into the history and culture of every tribal and ethnic group that walks the face of this Planet. Slavery meant power, new territory and a very cheap work force. Every great civilization in the History of Earth was built on Slavery in one form or another. Camac. |
| Posted by: Sekhmet 10-Jul-2008, 03:09 PM |
| Slavery was many things. It was controlled labor, it was war prizes, currency, auxiliary breeding stock, among other things. But the bottom line you're looking at is power. Whether that's material wealth, or the ability to build and produce on a scale that would not be possible otherwise, the common denominator is power. |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 10-Jul-2008, 07:43 PM |
| What a topic . . . Yes, it's a lot to do with a cheap and reliable (and importable) labor force, and a way to keep and manage a subjugated people on its own turf. The similarities across history are interesting, but the differences should also be illuminating: how, and to what extent, is a slave regarded as inferior? in status only, or intrinsically somehow; and if thought intrinsically inferior, how does that play into justifying the slavery? What are the prospects and conditions for eventual freedom? Those things have all varied . . . I wonder, does the answer in each case have anything to do with how the slave owners ultimately fared? |
| Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 11-Jul-2008, 08:25 AM |
| The good news is today slavery as its known in its most ugly form is not practiced as a policy by any nation or peoples. The bad news is it is still being practised by those with a twisted and or broken humanity. From the recently arrested LI, NY couple holding household slaves, to a vibrant human slave trade based on economics, politics, etc., that spans the globe. oldraven brought up a discussion on Toyota in another forum topic as a modern day example. Quoted here: Politics Live forum "Toyota And The Media., Who's story are you getting?" In the US , our founders decided not to deal with the issue of slavery at the time of our Declaration of Independence, too complicated and devisive. Look at some of the draft sentences cut out from the finished product. The British and French abolished the slave trade in 1804 or so and abolished slavery in 1834 or so. The Civil War 90 years after 1776 decided it for the USA. Indentured servitude was a legal replacement for slave ownership and was well abused by individual masters and companies. The economic realities of replacing a workforce of slaves with a workforce of free will labor was not simple, cheap, easy, or peaceful. As stoirmiel points out in a question, her previous post, last sentence. Can you imagine being told you are free now, but must remain on site for a period of 6 years under apprenticeship? This is exactly what the British tried to do with slaves in the British colonies in 1834 or so. You can imagine, it didn't go over very well. In the Americas, when the Declaration of Independence was first read to the public, many slaves immediately ran away. Jefferson lost around 20 slaves that first day. "....that all men are created equal...." was a very motivating line for the slaves. USN |
| Posted by: Camac 11-Jul-2008, 08:52 AM |
| USN; Last week on, I think ABC News they did a segment on child slavery. Showed how a reporter flew to Haiti and within 10 hours of leaving NY. had purchased an 11 year old girl for $150.00. A while back on Bill Moyers there was a chap who wrote a book about how the Criminal Justice system in the South, during the early part of the 20th century kept slavery alive and prospering by renting out convicts (mostly Black) to work in fields and factories. Didn't catch all of it but what I saw was both interesting and appalling. Camac. |
| Posted by: John Clements 11-Jul-2008, 09:28 AM |
| Slavery not complicated. Do what you’re told, or die. I wonder, do you think that “Stop Loss” is a form of slavery? (Always read the fine print.) Even after the Emancipation Act, (god only knows) how many Black men were convicted of loitering, and as result of ridiculous fines levied against them for that crime, ended up being slaves all over again, (either for the state, or large business concerns). |
| Posted by: Camac 12-Jul-2008, 08:37 AM |
| LOA; To get back to the History of Slavery. The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade can be traced back to the Portuguese in the mid to late 15th century and early 16th century. With the Potuguese search for a trade route to India by sailing south along the African Coast they set up Trading Forts along the way. Primarily this was to trade for Gold but it wasn't long before they discovered that they could make good money transporting slaves for the Muslim Traders who controlled most of the routes. When sugar cane was introduced to the Azores a cheap labour force was required and the Black Slaves filled that niche. Approximately 81,000 were imported. As Portugal expanded into the new world (Brazil) they like the Spanish before them realized that the local population made a poor work force and a new market opened up for African Slaves. Camac. |
| Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 12-Jul-2008, 12:31 PM |
| For those interested in the history of the American slave trade, you may wish to read the article in the Smithsonian Magazine, "A Northern Family Confronts its Slaveholding Past" at http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/katrina-browne.html . A story of "slavery from the deep north". |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 12-Jul-2008, 03:34 PM |
| Very interesting replies here and with various opinions. We all know that slavery was power and cheap labor at some point. But it was also a trade like Camac mentioned in his post and this is what really fascinates me. I think that slavery was a way of life as well.Not only for power but a need in the society of past times. The slave trade was serious business and one could get very rich in selling slaves. Though I wouldn't believe that slavery is as old as the human race because I don't think cavemen used slaves at that time.They were much smarter then that. This came way after that period,I think. I will have to read more on this. In my opinion,slavery is derived from war and prisoners were then used as slaves. I think this is how it started.The Romans used slaves for all kinds of things. They would train them to become gladiators and such. Prisoners then were Christians destined to the circus and die. Slaves were there to clean up the mess. Through history up until recently slaves were part of households. Even here in Canada even though not much is mentioned in books about it. It's like if historians didn't want to make it known somehow. Strange and intriguing. I have found this book in my bookclub that's call "The Slave Ship:A Human History." by Marcus Rediker. I've read a few excerpts and I think I'll buy this very interesting book. LOA |
| Posted by: Camac 12-Jul-2008, 04:39 PM |
| LOA. Believe me when I say that the Cavemen practiced slavery, especially when it came to women of other tribes. Camac. |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 12-Jul-2008, 05:12 PM | ||
Why? Were you there?  I'm sorry my friend I just couldn't help myself...the door was open wide. Please forgive me.  (I'm still laughning)I'll try to be serious next time.... LOA |
| Posted by: Camac 13-Jul-2008, 04:40 AM | ||||
LOA. Yes.   |
| Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 13-Jul-2008, 07:54 AM |
| For a reading of many histories of slavery , go to Google, type in slavery history, you will find many resources there. From ancient thru today. No doubt slavery pre-dates recorded history. It is recorded in Babylonian times, in Persia, ancient Egypt and Greece and Roman territory. USN |
| Posted by: Camac 13-Jul-2008, 08:04 AM | ||
USN; I am no authority on the Bible but I believe that when Abraham left Ur (of the Chaldese) he took his family, followers and slaves. Ur is supposedly the oldest city built. Camac. |
| Posted by: Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas 13-Jul-2008, 06:02 PM | ||
There are many passages in the Bible which have been used to argue that God meant for some people to be enslaved. For example,
Colossians 3:22 (New International Version). |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 15-Jul-2008, 07:17 PM | ||
If nothing was recorded at that time, on what then do you think the scientists assumes that slavery was practice during the stone age? Maybe it was just an assumption that the people at the time would use women of other tribes as slaves. Or was it in reality just for the men to have a sort of harem in their tribes? Most of the times historians are writing history only on superficial facts and then after some years they find their mistakes and rewrite everything even human evolution. LOA |
| Posted by: Camac 16-Jul-2008, 08:00 AM | ||||
LOA; There is assumption that slavery was practiced in pre-recorded time and there is also evidence in the skeletons recovered from ancient sites. By comparing the bones of a group of individuals it can be determine which ones were subjected to harder work and harsher treatment than others. This would point towards those individuals being slaves. I remember once a programme on TV where they recovered the bones of what turned out to be an pre-adolescent female slave. This was determined by the marks on here shoulders where the muscle attaches to the bone. These were elongated showing that she had carried a heavy weight for long periods of time. Presumably a small child, perhaps that of her owner. The skeletal remains also proved that she was to young to have had a child of her own. My Lady slavery has been around for a long time and in some forms it is still with us. Perhaps it is part of the Human condition to have someone else do all the hard dirty work while those who can enjoy the fruits. Camac. |
| Posted by: Sekhmet 16-Jul-2008, 11:52 AM |
| Some did very well living as a slave. ::watches the tomatoes being loaded:: There are accounts of slaves living in Rome, Egypt and later on in Constantinople who were, aside from the internal household pecking order, accorded respect because they were owned by a prominent person, and therefore their words and sometimes actions carried quite a bit of weight. They were dressed sumptuously (comparatively speaking), fed well, and housed comfortably because of their perceived worth, and because it was a show of their owner's wealth and prestige. A good and genuinely loyal slave was more precious than gold. A slave trained in a specialized skill commanded fortunes. Gladiators were, in a strict sense of things, slaves. Yet a gladiator could be more popular than a rock star of today's world, with droves of admiring fans and yes, groupies who could range from other slaves to fine ladies. It wasn't unknown to have a gladiator "bred" in the hopes of having another just like him someday. The American South had painted themselves into a corner with their cash (and labor intensive) crops , as had to a lesser degree the North. Northern industry and farming adjusted to having no slaves per se, but rather used immigrant labor to fill in the gaps and, it could be argued, treated them worse than some slaves in the South. It was actually easier to replace an immigrant than a slave. Just when the South could have feasibly done away with the institution, along came Whitney and his cotton gin. Indenture was a nice way of saying "slave" in the earlier years of the colonies. A person was literally bought and sold, either in the Old Countries or when the ship landed in the colonies, though there was a nicety of the "indenture" having the price tag rather than the person itself. And yet they were treated the same way. Criminals, the indigent, or those who fell upon misfortune on the boat or shortly beforehand would be required to serve out their indenture in the form of labor for a set amount of years. Merchants and ship captains would buy another's indenture and bring them over to be sold at market or in private transactions. While on paper most indentures had an expiration date, very often "extensions" were imposed for expenses both real and imagined in order to draw out the terms. Many died without ever seeing the end of their terms. Children were often required to serve family members' indentures when they died before the contract was up. Wow, I just went on two totally different subjects there, sorry about that. I'm in the process of doing a talk on industry in the North come the Civil War years, so some of this is still front loaded on the brain. LOL Here, have some fun with this: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/aapchtml/aapchome.html And this: http://history.org/Almanack/life/Af_Amer/aalife.cfm I'll go back to work.  |
| Posted by: Sekhmet 16-Jul-2008, 11:55 AM |
| http://www.history.org/search/verity_search_results.cfm Ok, one more. NOW I'll shut up. LOL |
| Posted by: Camac 16-Jul-2008, 01:05 PM |
| Sekhmet; Slavery is Slavery no matter how benevolent it may seem (to quote Dante "All Hope Abandon, Ye who Enter Here") this can also apply to Slavery. It is to say the least Dehumanizing. The Slave has absolutely no control over his life or disposition and lives or dies at the whim of another. A Gladiator might have had the status of s modern day Rock Star but his chances of living long enough to receive the Wooden Sword were slim. Camac.   |
| Posted by: Sekhmet 16-Jul-2008, 04:01 PM |
| I'm far from glamorizing the institution. What I *am* saying is that slavery has several faces and names. What's more interesting to me is the permutations that it took with different cultures and ages, and how they were viewed by those at the time. We can sit back all day and judge this civilization or that country and play with our hindsight to our hearts' content, but I tend to look at those who actually had to live those lives, how they managed to do so, and how they fit in with those around them. There's dehumanizing everywhere. I can tick a dozen examples off the top of my head in America alone that's going on right this second. My questions are how they got there, how they live with it, and how the rest of society views it, what opinions they give about it in public, and how they actually behave. |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 16-Jul-2008, 05:38 PM | ||
I am still sceptic about the fact that slavery existed during the cavemen era. As you say yes scientists found evidence through bones comparison of individuals that some may have worked harder then others but then again these cavemen tribes were also nomads so of course they would have travelled long distance. And most probably the women would cary the heavy loads for the men would've need to be on alert for defense. At that time there was not too many babies surviving for lack of food and if the tribe had to move because of it they would let the babies behind of kill it for food. And I agree that slavery has several faces and names. Trought times slavery would change name. Maybe by changing it some would think it fashion somehow. In medieval times some were call serf or villains later it would be servant but they all had one thing in commun, serve a master with no pay and long labour hours,little food mostly leftover that turned stale or just killed because he made the mistake to lookup in his master's eyes. LOA |
| Posted by: Camac 16-Jul-2008, 07:54 PM |
| LOA; My Lady go to Google and type in "Origins of Slavery" there are many sites about the subject. Camac. |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 17-Jul-2008, 06:22 AM |
| Maybe it's time for another topic that would be of more interest to members. Google is a fine reference I agree but what is the use of a forum discussion where people can exchange their knowledge and discuss over different subjects,if some of the replies are suggesting to go on to Google to find more information. No offense taken or given either way. Thanks,  LOA |
| Posted by: Camac 17-Jul-2008, 07:03 AM | ||
My Lady; You are correct and we should stick to our own thoughts and comments about the subject rather than take the easy route of eliciting Google. I apologize. Camac. |
| Posted by: Patch 17-Jul-2008, 10:15 AM |
| Many of my ancestors came here as "indentured servants." Though it was for limited time, it was a form of slavery. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: John Clements 17-Jul-2008, 12:22 PM |
| I know that my Mother scrubbed floors as a “domestic”, when she came to the US from Paisley at the age of thirteen. Sounds like slavery to me? |
| Posted by: Patch 17-Jul-2008, 01:48 PM |
| Most came in poverty and had no choice. The biggest hurdle was when they arrived. If they were ill, at best they were quarantined and at worst they would be sent back. If they had no money to pay for a ticket the were shipped home like animals. None found America to be the land of "milk and honey." It sure must have felt like slavery. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Camac 18-Jul-2008, 08:06 AM | ||
There is no denying that new working class or poor immigrants to North America a hundred years ago had a rough go of it but it was not slavery. Drudgery and exploitation yes. Labour Laws were either non-existent or inaffective and employers could and did get away with murder. The main difference though was that the immigrants had the freedom of movement. They could look for better , if any, employment and had some standing with the law. These are denied to a slave. A slave exists only at the whim of his or her master. They were under the Law, property. A good horse had more worth than them. An immigrants children were born free and had the opportunity of schooling. A slaves child was just another commodity that could be sold or worked. I am not minimizing the conditons which immigrants lived and worked under and yes to many it felt like slavery but in comparison to a slave their lives, as such, were better. Camac. |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 21-Jul-2008, 05:22 PM | ||||
I have to agree with Camac here for there was a difference with the working class of those days which I am not saying that it was nice. But contrary to slavery in which slaves did not get paid for their work, the only benefit they would get in return would of been nourishment from his or her master and then again meal would not come every day and 3 times a day. A slave would not have a day off. Contrary to the working class that,at the time would have at least a day off where one could do as one wish. Yes Patch, our ancestors did not have an easy life, work was a real part of life. And work hard for that matter.Today we do work but I would say work is not as physically demanding as in those days. Most or a lot work by choice because we are a materialistic society,we want always more and more.So in a way we kind of becomes slaves of our own doing for some. I have read stories that in Scotland and England and even here in Nova Scotia that during the big mining era, kids would go under and work 12-15 hours days shift pulling coal that were piled up on a weel baril of some kind on their hands and knees all day. Some would just die of exaustion or suffocation in the mines for there was no air to breathe and the temperature very hot and humid. And they were paid pittance for their work if they were paid at all for some. I learned that while visiting a mine in Sydney and when our guide described this horrendous story about kids slavery you should have heard the comments and the faces of people. All were appalled by the story. But like I said history of manking is not a pretty picture sometimes and slavery and it's history is one of them. LOA |
| Posted by: Patch 21-Jul-2008, 09:07 PM |
| I am not trying to belittle slavery and strongly believe that NO human should be owned by another. History in America indicates though that most (not all) slaves were treated better than those employed in the jobs of the 1800's. A slave was a major monetary investment and mistreatment put the investment at risk. My grandmother told how her father worked 7 days a week and 14 or 15 hours a day. He would get up very early to attend mass on Sunday morning and go from there to work. If an employee became ill or died many were waiting to fill the job. Most employers cared little. My great grandfather died at either 36 or 37. My grandmothers brother then became the main bread winner. The two females continued to wash clothes. The brother died in his 30's and my great grandmother lived with my grandmother and grandfather. My grandfather was a farmer and they worked from morning till night but it was still an easier life. I read a lot about slavery and the civil war (not truly what the war was fought over) as my family split over the issues of the time. My branch of the family left the Valley and the Southern sympathizers stayed. My part of the family changed the spelling of our name so we would not be associated with the Southern branch and they were probably glad we did. We have visited since of course but not a lot. It is a interesting subject and there is much information/dis-information about it. I believe the worst of the treatment of African Americans came at the hands of General Forrest's "social club" after the war and in more recent times. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: John Clements 22-Jul-2008, 05:56 AM |
| We’re all slaves, (when you get right down to it). The only difference being the pay scale. JC |
| Posted by: Camac 22-Jul-2008, 08:42 AM | ||
JC; I agree in one way or another we are all slaves either to our work our life or our passions. The great thing about that type of slavery is there is always the choice of walking away from it. Those who were bound in slavery never had a choice even for something as simple as what to eat or drink. Many might think they are working in slavery but believe me the real thing is still out there and thriving and there is no pay scale. Camac. |
| Posted by: John Clements 22-Jul-2008, 09:14 AM | ||||
Absolutely correct Camac, but would please explain it to the wife. Coffee brake is over, catch you later, JC |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 22-Jul-2008, 04:39 PM | ||||||||
Oh! That's your job to do man,convice the wife. 
two words that the slaves did not know the meaning of. At least for us in our "modern slavery" we do get coffe brakes or cigarette brakes or whatever you want to call it.And even though we don't all earn the same salaries. Us, that works and earns money if managed properly even if little, we manage to be able to buy some food. Which the slaves did not possess that privilege to do and that most of us actually take for granted. P.S.:When I say we and us I'm speaking in the general term,of course. LOA |
| Posted by: John Clements 22-Jul-2008, 08:15 PM | ||||||||
Boy…make one little joke, (without one of those little funny faces), and right away you get jump on. I know it’s my job to convince the wife. In fact she once said… “You know...I would be convinced, if you hadn’t convinced me”. (I thought it was funny then, and I still do.) Have a good night LOA, JC |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 23-Jul-2008, 04:40 AM | ||
Mornin' JC. I did not jump on you or your joke. But sometimes in your writings you are subtle and one can misinterprete your real meaning.If it's joke or not. If I offended in any way I apologize. My post wasn't meant to jump on you at all. Have a great day! LOA |
| Posted by: John Clements 23-Jul-2008, 07:29 AM | ||
No problem LOA, I am pretty thick skinned, (especially the skin on my skull), where at times it can be impenetrable. Anyway I am totally aware of just horrible, and insidious slavery is. In fact I would choose death over slavery, any day. Take care, JC |
| Posted by: Camac 23-Jul-2008, 08:54 AM |
| JC. I admire your choice of death before slavery. I on the other hand would choose slavery for the mere fact that by doing so I remain alive to cause harm to the enslavers. Hopefull having a full measure of revenge before they are forced to terminate me. Camac |
| Posted by: John Clements 24-Jul-2008, 08:06 AM | ||
What do I have to do quote Patrick Henry? It’s a “given” that I would die fighting against slavery. But then, I’ve bee guilty of telling people things they already know too. So thanks for covering all the bases, just incase. Later…I have to go “protest” now… JC |
| Posted by: Camac 24-Jul-2008, 09:08 AM | ||||
JC. If you are referring to "Give me Liberty or give me Death" That is a rather selfish statement for if you are dead you can no longer fight for Liberty and those who would oppress have won. There is an old adage "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day." Camac. |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 24-Jul-2008, 05:35 PM |
| On the subject of slavery one question comes to mind. What was the role of slave women? I did find something interesting about the role of slave women. Here is a bit of excerpt from a book abut the story of Harriet Jacobs who was a slave woman. Harriet Jacobs:Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl Slavery was a horrible institution that dehumanized a race of people. Female slave bondage was different from that of men. It wasn't less severe, but it was different. The sexual abuse, child bearing, and child care responsibilities affected the females's pattern of resistance and how they conducted their lives. Harriet Jacobs' Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl, demonstrates the different role that women slaves had and the struggles that were caused from having to cope with sexual abuse. And this is another interesting writing about the master and her slave. Recent DNA test results that have concluded that the Nation's third president, Thomas Jefferson fathered at least one child, Eston Hemings, with his slave, Sally Hemings. The study has shed new light on the aged debate, forcing society and historians to recognize what had previously been ignored. Although America is obsessed with race, our society does not recognize the central role slavery has played in the nation's development. The continued and persistent effort to separate and distinguish the two races does not correspond to the reality of a complicated mixture of cultures in our history. If the results of the DNA test are the markers of a new period of recognition for many in our society, does this mean the downfall of the status of those leaders such as Thomas Jefferson? We were already aware of Jefferson's hypocrisies involving his idealistic writing of the Declaration of Independence, and his ownership of slaves. Does his relationship with Hemings further taint his accomplishments? If Thomas Jefferson was the "Founding Father" of our country, does that make Sally Hemings the "Mother"? Perhaps he can be viewed now as more human and less as the epitome of equality and morality, which he quite obviously was not. The suffering these women must have endured is simply unimaginable but what is the difference with what some women even today must endure in comparison of that time. If I think for example the muslim women that simply have no say in anything and gets much abuse from men. At from what we read and see is true these women are simply modern slaves. Or if I think of women forced into prostitution again this is modern slavery. LOA |
| Posted by: Camac 24-Jul-2008, 06:14 PM |
| LOA; The role of women in slavery was the same as any women of the era in which t slavery existed. . It is only since the 20th century that women started getting the freedoms and rights they deserved. A woman before then was chattle. It wasn't until 1929 I believe that women in Canada obtained the legal status of being a person. Camac. |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 24-Jul-2008, 06:23 PM | ||
And a good thing there was some with backbones enough to bang  some sense in the head of those stubborn men that we are all one and the same. Aaaah!I feel better. LOA |
| Posted by: Camac 24-Jul-2008, 06:31 PM | ||||
LOA; There are differences between male and female and as the French say VIVE LA DIFFERENCE Camac. PS. I tease. |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 24-Jul-2008, 06:34 PM |
| |
| Posted by: John Clements 24-Jul-2008, 09:21 PM | ||||||
Camac; Yes I’m aware of that adage, and being an American, (first generation of Scots Irish decent…as you know). I’m also good at shooting from the trees, and evasive action. It worked in American Revolution, as you well know. So I’m not about to lay down my life against overwhelming odds. I would hope that you think that I’m smarter then that. JC PS: If you don’t mind I prefer calling you Dave rather then Camac. |
| Posted by: Camac 24-Jul-2008, 10:12 PM |
| JC. I know your smart, but don't get cocky  Also I don't mind if you call me Dave.I prefer David but Dave is fine. Just don't call me Davey or I'll declare War on the US. then you can test your tree theory.  Camac (David,Dave) |
| Posted by: John Clements 25-Jul-2008, 09:31 AM | ||
Hi… Like Role-Aids…that’s a relief. Don’t get cocky? Ok. Declare war on the US? That might makes two of us. David works for me. Meanwhile, check out what an Apollo astronaut has to say about UFO’s. I just posted it over on…God and ET; (Philosophy Since and so on). Later, JC |
| Posted by: Camac 25-Jul-2008, 10:14 AM |
| JC. You disappoint me my Friend I had a Declaration for the Commencement of Hostilities all written out. " To All and Sundry(not Sundae) Hear Ye and Attend. Due to the Presumtive and or Imaginary Besmirchment of My Most Sovereign Personnage be Advised that Commencing (not Connecticut) at 25:00 Hours on the Eleventeenth of Julember (pick a year) a State of Beligerency Shall Exist between the U.S. and my Most Sovereign Personnage. In order to keep conflict at a minimum (due to the price of Gas.) and to avoid unwanted annimosity Negotiations can be Requested. Surrender of course is preferred and the most generous of terms will be offered. (Note: At 300 million (give or take a couple of million) to one the odds are pretty good I'll win. Confident ain't I) Most Sov. Pers. Camac. |
| Posted by: John Clements 25-Jul-2008, 01:17 PM | ||
David, soon to be Dave; Don’t make me laugh…with…that mouthful. You know if it wasn't a wee bit cocky. It would have amendment possibilities. New Rule: Arrest Rove now, (and I’ll bet he squeals). JC PS: (One way or the other.) |
| Posted by: Camac 25-Jul-2008, 04:02 PM | ||||
JC; Cocky no, arrogant, possibly. insane, yes. What individual in his right mind would take on 300 million others. David    |
| Posted by: John Clements 25-Jul-2008, 08:13 PM | ||||||
Makes sence to me david. So we have goten off subject. Slavery stinks any time. Late, JC |
| Posted by: Patch 26-Jul-2008, 11:34 AM | ||
I am a bit late here but I couldn't agree more with your statements, especially in regard to women. My oldest daughter experienced a severe domestic violence situation over 4 years. She didn't tell me until we were having a nice dinner "out" one day after he was long gone. I would still like to "sit down" with him to discuss the matter. My neighbor was in a near slave like and violent situation. She got away and several neighbors were to testify for the "People". It was plea bargained and we didn't have to testify. These terrible things do happen and little is done to prevent it. It seems society needs repaired from the ground up. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Camac 26-Jul-2008, 02:43 PM |
| Patch; One of my daughters was physically and sexually assaulted by a boyfriend over a period of time in their relationship. She did not tell me for years. When she finally did she also said "I didn't tell you Dad because I knew you would have killed him and he wasn't worth going to jail for". If it is possible my Love for her grew a thousand fold because in all that trauma she thought not of herself but of me. It took me awhile to realize that for that period she lived in a form slavery because she feared for her life. Thank the Gods she finally got away from him. Camac. |
| Posted by: Patch 26-Jul-2008, 03:32 PM | ||
My daughter gave me the same reason for keeping her abuse to herself. I am not sure exactly how I would have handled it but for certain he would have had a better "understanding" of what he had done! I have no doubt that wherever he is, he is still the same abuser that he was with my daughter. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 27-Jul-2008, 07:43 PM | ||||
Gentlemen, I am profoundly sorry for your daughters and what they went through in their young lives. Domestic violence is male dominance over women and is the epitome of cowardice. And Patch, I do agree completely that society needs repaired from the ground up. Slavery can be hidden under a lot of means.Sad that even in our society it is still alive and kicking. I've seen on t.v. a documentary about a woman in Russia and I mean a old woman she must have been in her sixties,who were solliciting young women by making them believe they could be models for an agency in some other country, and what she was doing was that she would get passports for them and she would pay their airfare. But once they were in the other country she would take back all their passports and bring them into a house and then her accomplices were a young couple that would force the girls into prostitution and if they would not cooperate,he would beat them,rape them while the wife would watch and then she would rape them as well. How this documentary got on t.v was the fact that one of the Russian girls was married and her husband searched high and low for her. He asked the help of one reporter and if I remember investigators and police helped him and they were able to go under cover and with hidden camera could film all that was going on. He finally found his wife but she was a change woman forever. At the time of her diseappearence she had just gave birth to a little girl a few months before. This documentary was so appaling the only image I still have of all this is that of the old woman who just looked an old ordinary woman. LOA |
| Posted by: Camac 27-Jul-2008, 08:06 PM |
| LOA Twenty odd years ago a family in the Yacht Club sailed from here to the West Indies and when they got into the Caribbean they were attacked by Pirates. They were robbed of everything they had but the worst was that the Pirates took the 14 year old daughter. She has never been heard from since. Chances are the girl was sold into slavery in Latin America. The mother never got over it and died 2 or 3 years later. Camac. |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 30-Jul-2008, 04:27 PM |
| Yes I remember hearing about that story. And how many more out there like that, we are not even aware of. These are all horror stories that unfortunately will always be there and I don't want to sound pessimistic or predicting doom because there are plenty of beautiful things around us, but in our society even if we think that we have evolved from barbaric acts we did not, because our society today is pretty much the same as in the roman times of old. Greed, sex, immorality ,drugs and so on is some of the key words that are wrong in our world. LOA |
| Posted by: tjbren 30-Dec-2011, 11:02 PM |
| Forgive me if I am repeating, I have not read every single note in this thread. I was reading this thread on slavery while listening to the Celtic Radio, and it occurred to me that very few people realize that many Black spiritual songs are based on Irish and Scottish tunes. Slaves were forbidden to sing the songs of their homeland, so they often used the music of their owners and put different words to them. American bluegrass country music can trace its roots to Irish and Scottish ancestry. it was was heavily influenced by slave songs and music as well. We humans today are so much closer to each other in ways that most of us do not realize. |