| Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format |
| Celtic Radio Community > Philosophy & Science > Do You Believe In God? |
| Posted by: Celticgirl90 16-Apr-2008, 06:08 PM |
| I believe in God! I believe He created everything! And I believe He has always been! He saved me from eternal death, and gave me eternal life! |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 16-Apr-2008, 06:36 PM |
| Celticgirl90, no offense but before answering your question. Might I ask why your question about God is in the Jester's Court forum? We have a forum for this kind of questions I know it's your first posts so maybe you don't know where to look. Anyways I would like to welcome you to the site and would advise that you take the time to explore the many forums and topics and hope you enjoy the music and people here at Celtic Radio.LOA |
| Posted by: dundee 17-Apr-2008, 11:23 AM | ||
+1 celticgirl90  i dont care where you post it..... oh PS... welcome to the place..  |
| Posted by: ogdenmusic 17-Apr-2008, 11:01 PM |
Yes  |
| Posted by: TandVh 18-Apr-2008, 07:04 AM |
| We are made in his image - spoken into existence by the living word- for God's pleasure which is selfless love. |
| Posted by: Camac 18-Apr-2008, 07:10 AM |
| I believe in a Creator but it is definately not a God. Camac. |
| Posted by: scotborn 18-Apr-2008, 07:17 AM |
| I am a staunch atheist, and anti religious. |
| Posted by: Aaediwen 18-Apr-2008, 09:07 AM |
| I believe in a divine being, with many names and many faces. All of those identities often referred to as God or Goddess. SO yes. Moving this thread to a more appropriate location |
| Posted by: Haggishead 18-Apr-2008, 09:15 AM |
| Aye! |
| Posted by: dundee 18-Apr-2008, 09:59 AM | ||
cant people discuss beliefs in a pub?? a social gathering place that is family orientated (at least in ireland)... aadei.... never would have imagined you were PC... *chuckle*  ya cant have a brew in church ya know....  please refer to my signature... all tongue in cheek... kinda. |
| Posted by: FamhairCloiche 18-Apr-2008, 11:58 AM |
| Life itself is divine, and since no man can credibly claim to have created life... |
| Posted by: Aaediwen 18-Apr-2008, 12:52 PM | ||||
Sure you can. Figured though that why was a thread about such a serious subject in the Jester's Court? I and apparently a couple others didn't think it made sense. The Philosophy forum though is perfect for this kind of discussion. I'm not complaining at all  The thread is neat. As for me being PC on that post... I didn't used to be and one of the things I need to work on is getting back to that state of not caring if I offend someone on the subject because of how I believe. As for how I arrived at my belief on the subject, I spent many sleepless nights comparing various religons, many of which seemed at odds with each other. Perticularly I started doing this because as a Christian I was curious about why everyone really had all the stereotypes on Witches, and I was getting curious about what the truth was about that, which led me in to studying Wicca. As I got in to it I found Wiccan teachings to mesh with Christ pretty well. Then when I looked back out at the world I came to the conclusion that all these different Gods and Goddesses from all these different religions seemed to be different faces on the same thing. All the tales just re tellings of the same ideas set for a different environment and culture. All sharing so much in common that it only makes sense there is one central source for it all. One polynomial, multifaceted God/Goddess that gave a different face to different peoples to say the same thing in different ways. The path of Christ The paths up the mountain the path of enlightenment all the same ... Do unto others as you would have done to you And ye harm none, do as ye will so many places and so many ways in which anything that really matters is saying the same thing.... All these religions involving God/Goddess having a son by way of a human.... Coincidence? I think not. Can I prove it? Now if I could do that then what would be the point of the word 'Faith'? Now, I don't really like any 'title' as such. Probably the best term I've found for how I believe would be referred to as 'Pagan Christian' I believe Christ is probably the only living person who ever had it rather figured out, And a lot of the Pagan teachings I've found tend to I think relay the message better than the Bible does. Not in all cases, but in several. Personally I rather prefer the phrasing of the Wiccan Rede as it doesn't leave as much open for interpritation. |
| Posted by: dundee 18-Apr-2008, 02:22 PM |
| i thought it was in the pub.... my bad... forgot it was in the jesters court.... but i thought the jesters court was run by the bot? i am so confused...  |
| Posted by: John Clements 18-Apr-2008, 04:00 PM |
| No. |
| Posted by: CelticRose 18-Apr-2008, 04:12 PM |
| I absolutley believe in God and His son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity Godhead created this world and the universe and mankind. I also believe in the written word of God as revealed in the Bible and hold it to be true from beginning to end. Ok, was I just supposed to say yes or no? Sorry, me bad. I couldn't resist, but ... yes! |
| Posted by: Sekhmet 18-Apr-2008, 08:37 PM |
Which one?  |
| Posted by: Leelee 18-Apr-2008, 08:47 PM |
| Aye |
| Posted by: Robert Phoenix 18-Apr-2008, 09:07 PM |
| From the first post I'm guessing the Judeo Christian God. But it would make an interesting thread to bring up others. Someone might have one we haven't heard about. Oh-Yes |
| Posted by: CelticRose 18-Apr-2008, 09:40 PM | ||
Well very good question, Sekmet. Not all of us believe in the same God (god). |
| Posted by: haynes9 18-Apr-2008, 09:47 PM |
| Yes, I believe in God, The LORD of the Old and New Testaments and have been freely given salvation through His Son, Jesus Christ. I am privileged to be a preacher of the Gospel. Good thread, good discussion and good attitude on differing opinions. That's what makes this place unique. Have a great day, everyone! |
| Posted by: Patch 19-Apr-2008, 03:57 PM |
| I most certainly do! Thou not for this reason, It is the best choice. Nearly all religions have one spiritual deity which would qualify as God. If you do not believe in God and find that there is, Trouble. If you believe and find there is no God, no trouble. To me it is a "no-brainer!" Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Nova Scotian 20-Jun-2008, 03:25 PM |
| Yes |
| Posted by: gwenlee 20-Jun-2008, 03:43 PM |
| I believe in God. |
| Posted by: DesertRose 20-Jun-2008, 05:44 PM |
| Ok, can I take this further?! Leave it to me! Many people believe in God, even the demons from Hell do. So I have to ask who is your God? Is it Jesus Christ or someone else? Just an honest question! That's all! Not trying to be confrontational here, just would like to know............cause I am also nosy!  Thanks! |
| Posted by: Nova Scotian 21-Jun-2008, 07:14 AM | ||
OK. I believe in God the father almighty. The maker of everything. I believe in Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh. |
| Posted by: Camac 21-Jun-2008, 07:20 AM | ||
Desert Rose; I do not believe in a God I believe in a "Creator" and the "Creator" is the UNIVERSE. Camac. |
| Posted by: MacEoghainn 21-Jun-2008, 12:23 PM | ||
Yes I do. But then even the Bot called Phillip over in the Jester's Court believes in God:
(or at least its programer must believe in God) Isn't the more important question: Does God believe in you? |
| Posted by: Nova Scotian 22-Jun-2008, 02:31 PM | ||||
Then who created the universe? |
| Posted by: Camac 22-Jun-2008, 03:05 PM | ||||||
NovaScotian; No one created the Universe it has always existed and is continually evolving. It is the Alpha and Omega. Camac. |
| Posted by: Lady of Avalon 22-Jun-2008, 03:31 PM |
| I believe in some kind of power, one can call it God or something else I think it's to each his own to call it whatever he or her wants. LOA |
| Posted by: Nova Scotian 22-Jun-2008, 05:40 PM | ||||||||
The universe had to have been created. Since it's constantly being created. I had a Science techer years ago in University who I asked this question to and he refused to answer it . So What happened in the beginning? How was the universe created? It had to have had a beginning. |
| Posted by: Dogshirt 22-Jun-2008, 05:54 PM | ||
Not really. If the universe is infinite in all directions, it is just as likely to have ALWAYS been in existence! |
| Posted by: Nova Scotian 23-Jun-2008, 04:32 AM |
| We can see the Universe. Or only a very small fraction of it. It moves. New planets and stars and whole galaxeeds are always being created and destroyed. The thought here is it just is and always and always will be? I find that very hard to believe that the Universe was not created. It had to come into exsistance some how. |
| Posted by: Nova Scotian 23-Jun-2008, 04:33 AM |
Sorry about the spelling and grammer on the last post. Just woke up.  |
| Posted by: John Clements 23-Jun-2008, 05:57 AM | ||
That makes sense to me, Dogshirt. |
| Posted by: Camac 23-Jun-2008, 06:38 AM | ||
NOvaScotian; There is a theory that our Universe is a part of a greater Universe just like the cells in our body constantly changing and renewing. Almost like a coral reef growing in the Ocean. This makes a lot more sense to me than having a God wave his hand with the pronunciation "Let there be." Camac. |
| Posted by: Nova Scotian 23-Jun-2008, 08:53 AM | ||
Well I'm sure you can see that your not going to convince me no matter what because I can go further and say what is the what that causes it all to work? What is the source? What makes it all happen and another big question is why? People have tried to convince me there is no God but so far it hasn't worked. |
| Posted by: maisky 23-Jun-2008, 09:00 AM |
| As Bella Abzug said: "Well, first of all, She is black". |
| Posted by: Dogshirt 23-Jun-2008, 10:37 AM | ||
When my son was at the age where evry word out of his mouth was "WHY?"(grrrrr), I came up with the ultimate answer......"Ask your mother." |
| Posted by: Camac 23-Jun-2008, 10:52 AM | ||||
NovaScotian; I for one am not trying to convince you that there is no God. If you take comfort and solice in the belief of a Supreme Being then that is your right and I commend you for it. I have never nor will I ever ridicule or berate an person for there beliefs I just require that I be given the same courtesy. Camac. |
| Posted by: Nova Scotian 23-Jun-2008, 11:38 AM | ||||||
Camac I agree. I'll never hate you or anyone for what you believe. To Dgoshirt WHYWHYWHYWHYWHY! |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 23-Jun-2008, 11:55 AM | ||
See that, NS? You have only to ask the Mother. |
| Posted by: maggiemahone1 23-Jun-2008, 12:49 PM |
| Yes, I believe in God..God is a spirit and we worship him in spirit and truth. I can't imagine life without believing!!! Ya'll have a good day!!!  |
| Posted by: Patch 23-Jun-2008, 01:03 PM |
| Virtually all of our knowledge is based on something that was accepted purely on faith in the beginning. For that reason, I believe there is a God that I can't see and accept his existence purely on faith. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Emmet 25-Jun-2008, 07:14 AM |
| The Black Death, Malleville, Antioch, Jerusalem, Drogheda & Wexford, the Black '47, Sharpsburg, the Somme, the influenza epidemic of 1918, Nanking, Auschwitz & Bergen-Belsen, Babba Yar, Rwanda, Bosnia, Fallujah, Gaza, et alia ad nauseum.; in times of humanity's greatest need, God has been most conspicuous by His absence. I strongly suspect that God is merely an imaginary friend for grownups. |
| Posted by: John Clements 25-Jun-2008, 07:36 AM | ||
Thanks for the laugh, Emmet |
| Posted by: Camac 25-Jun-2008, 07:44 AM | ||||
Emmet, Those who believe will retort that God doesn't interfere because he has given us free will. Convenient isn't it.  Camac. |
| Posted by: Patch 25-Jun-2008, 07:45 AM |
| I gave the concept a lot of thought a long time ago. I have had some pretty nasty times in my life when I wondered where God was, but my conclusion was as follows. If I believed and was wrong, nothing lost, however if I didn't believe and was wrong, very baaad move!! Only when our time here is finished will we know for sure. Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: Camac 25-Jun-2008, 07:58 AM | ||
Patch; Years ago shortly before she died my Mom asked me what I would do if I died and had to stand before God. Without hesitation I said to Her I'd ask one question Mom, Where were you when we needed you? She dropped the subject. Camac. |
| Posted by: Patch 25-Jun-2008, 08:36 AM | ||||
You got me, there is nothing I could say in reply! Slàinte, Patch |
| Posted by: dundee 25-Jun-2008, 08:51 AM | ||
i would just add that most of what you recite here are mans inhumanities... God has given each of us a free will to do good or to do harm... oh you forgot Cain.  |
| Posted by: Emmet 02-Jul-2008, 10:58 AM | ||||||
Alrighty then... The Great Famine of India (1876-1878; 5,250,000 dead), the bubonic plague pandemic (1330–1351; 75,000,000 dead), the 1931 Chinese floods (1,000,000 to 4,000,000 dead), the 1976 Tangshan earthquake in China (255,000 to 655,000 dead), the 1971 Bangladesh cyclone (200,000 to 500,000 dead), the 2004 Indonesian tsunami (285,000 dead), the Stroggli volcanic eruption around 1500 BCE which exterminated the Minoan civilization, the Lake Toba volcanic eruption around 74,000 years ago which wiped out as much as 99% of the global human population, reducing the population from at most 60 million to less than 10 thousand, et alia ad nauseum; in times of humanity's greatest need, God has been most conspicuous by His absence. I strongly suspect that God is merely an imaginary friend for grownups. I fail to see how excluding "mans inhumanities" makes a qualitative difference in the validity of my argument.
I didn't forget Cain, I just didn't see the relevance of mythology. |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 03-Jul-2008, 06:07 PM | ||
Of course natural and man-made disasters are not distinguished from each other, if humans are an intrinsic part of nature. But there is no way you can get believers away from the idea that there is a privileged relationship between God and humans that is qualitatively different from the relationship between God and the rest of existence. It's too rich -- it accounts for too much, it excuses too much, and it makes every other argument unassailable a priori. If our species has evolved to come up with that notion so universally, it's always possible to argue that it's because it's true: a true calling that we are uniquely designed or intended to respond to. Many have argued so. And it's too reassuring, validating and reinforcing to make anyone WANT to consider the more elegant possibility, the one that does not add an extrinsic element to make it work: religious nature in humans is yet another side effect of that front-loaded brain development that permits unlimited ideation and interpretation, along with its infernal ingenuity, and also favors interpretation that is self-referential as a survival feature. God MUST be in the system AND independent of it at the same time -- otherwise, how could we explain so much significance in our own existence and actions, no matter how good or bad, and so much justification to continue that existence with no upper limit to what it costs the rest of creation? It is far easier to explain this human tendency to create beliefs from within the system, as Occam's razor would have it: it's fear of individual death and group extinction that makes us reach in that direction and concoct all the evidence we need to support the yearning for life that is qualitatively different from all other life, in that it need not end. And that will drag us straight to the very thing we fear faster than anything else could, because there is no limit to the self-centered, God-validated justification we will pin on our outrageously destructive behaviour. |
| Posted by: Antwn 10-Jul-2008, 12:16 PM |
| Aside from the existential or epistemological questions concerning this subject, its what humans assume are the qualities, desires and will of God that cause the most trouble. God is merely a word. Along with it comes a panoply of assumptions about something no one really knows anything about. Belief, opinion, faith etc are all separate from knowledge in this case. Even if one points to a profound subjective mystical experience to which the word God is the most descriptive term in their mind, in what way could anyone verify it? Outside "verification" from a socially deemed authority or holy book is equally limited to being just that, nothing more. In what way does appointed authority ensure any more knowledge is present than you have? The reliance upon faith and belief is because nothing is known. What else is left? What does it mean if we call something God? Well, in our historical experience its meant a great deal and still does. The problem is the amount of social, moral, ethical, spiritual, and (in America) political weight invested in ideas for which there can be no verification. In that respect perhaps the most intellegent response would be to consider how well these ideas have served us and what price we've paid for them. There are groups of people who'd use weapons of mass destruction on entire populations based on disagreements concerning their unauthenticated fantasies. Can we afford not to reevaluate our ideas? How have these ideas served us? How have they added to or detracted from our ability to bring about the world we say we desire. Necessity may require it. Whether it inspires it or not depends fundamentally on whether we prefer our untenable ideas to our suffering. What would be the problem in just living with our uncertainty in the interim, and getting on with questions concerning how to live together and create the societies we want? In what ways would rational alternatives be undesirable? If we are too enamored of our maniacal melodramas, or we have insufficient faith in ourselves that we believe only our religions prevent us from self destruction, then our extinction game has gone into overtime. No civilization has destroyed itself by becoming too reasonable, and many who've embraced all sorts of supernatural skulduggery have explored the limits of sociopathic lunacy, so maybe just this once we could not repeat history. If not, then our "infernal ingenuity" untempered by sense may end history forthwith. Epistemological questions or philosophical arguments pro or con are academic. Those who'd simply espouse their unqualified faith in their God and insist that social, political and international policies continue to be built on a foundation of unsubstantiated supernatural fantasies about the will of a Big Boss in the sky will have alot to answer for if missiles fly. In my opinion they've had alot to answer for for centuries, but that's just me. |
| Posted by: Camac 10-Jul-2008, 01:49 PM |
| Antwn; To me the exisitence of this Diety (Being) called God is irrelevant in that it can neither be proven or disproven. It is in my opinion a superstition pass down through eons of evolution. The problem of believing in a Diety is in knowing what it wants or expects. My personal belief is that there is a Force, Power, or Entity driving the process. For what purpose; I would not even hazzard to guess for all I know it is Chaos and not reason. What I have concluded in my 3 score and 5 years is that until the Diety God is removed from the equation Humanity will know no Peace. I also believe that the great American Experiment in Democracy is teetering on the edge of the slippery slope to Theocracy and with that comes the Four Horsemen. In my Opinion. Camac. |
| Posted by: Montie, druid at heart 24-Oct-2008, 05:07 AM |
| Without a doubt. |
| Posted by: Breandán 04-Nov-2008, 09:02 PM |
| I believe in a number of Gods. I am a "hard polytheist" as some would call me. I believe that the Gods are distinct personalities here and in the Otherworlds, and often show their prescence in the form of natural phenomena. They are not the perfect beings often described when people discuss deity, and they are not the "Creators" nor are they always loving and kind. They simply are. They are the conscious beings behind the natural forces that govern us. m(Just explaining, as my definition of deity is a bit different from many views) So, I do not believe in God, though I do believe in Gods. |
| Posted by: Robert Phoenix 04-Nov-2008, 11:04 PM |
| I don't recall God promisnig anyone a frikkin rose garden in the first place. |
| Posted by: englishmix 07-Feb-2009, 12:29 AM |
| Yes, I too beleive in God. Not just that God exists and is our Creator, but that He lives and loves you and me - caring and preserving, giving and forgiving, healing and saving - inspite of my pride and ignorance, my hurting and being hurt, my silliness and my selfishness and my sinfulness. The blessed Trinity is true to His Word in Christ and is worthy of our humble adoration and trust. |
| Posted by: jasminemoon 07-Apr-2009, 03:09 AM |
| i do. "Why is it so hard for you to believe? Is my physical existence any more improbable than your own? What about all that hoo-ha with the devil awhile ago from that movie? Nobody had any problem believing that the devil took over and existed in a little girl. All she had to do was wet the rug, throw up some pea soup and everybody believed. The devil you could believe, but not God? I work in my own way. I don't, I don't get inside little children; they got enough to do just being themselves. Also I'm not about to go around to every person in the world and say, 'Look it's me, I wanna talk to you.' So I picked one man. One very good man. I told him God lives. I live. He had trouble believing too, in the beginning. I understood. I'm not sure how this whole miracle business started, the idea that anything connected with me has to be a miracle. Personally I'm sorry that it did. Makes the distance between us even greater. But if a miracle helps you believe that I am who I say I am... I'll give you one. A good one." George Burns, in the movie,OH God! |
| Posted by: Breandán 07-Apr-2009, 08:58 PM | ||
I dunno if this was in answer to my post, but...okay. |
| Posted by: karenrah 12-Apr-2009, 05:30 AM |
| My belief in god depends on how you define "god". I am a Nicherin Buddhist. I have a firm belief in the Mystic Law of the Universe. I activate this law in my own life and use it to influence my life and the universe around me by chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. Why? Because it works. I don't view the Mystic Law as a person or being. It simply is. I don't claim to understand it, it is mystic (duh). The results of my practice are concrete and readily repeated. So, my faith in the Mystic Law is real and will continue to be my philosophical base. I don't disparage anybody else's beliefs. |
| Posted by: Jillian 19-Apr-2009, 02:46 PM | ||
Just as planets drifting away from the sun become colder and more uninhabitable, so goes the Spirit when we drift away from God. Jillian |
| Posted by: Robert Phoenix 19-Apr-2009, 05:24 PM | ||
Actually, no it wasn't. I just got tired of the reasoning that states that because bad things happen in this world that this proves that God does not exist. By that reseaoning I can prove that gravity does not exist because birds can fly. For just as many bad things that exist in this world one could possibly point to an infinite number og good things. Or a number a bad things that led to good things. The existance og good and bad circumstances is not the most reliable proof for the existance of God. |
| Posted by: Antwn 20-Apr-2009, 06:24 PM | ||
I'm curious to know what you think is the most reliable proof for the existence of God, if any. |
| Posted by: Camac 21-Apr-2009, 07:08 AM |
| Antwn; There is no reliable proof the God exists, at least the God that is taught by religion. There is however proof abundant that there is a Creator, a guiding force. One merely has to look around to see the marvels that the Universe has wrought. Good and Evil, Right and Wrong are Human concepts a base for Law and what is acceptable behaviour within the Human Society. Some where along our evolution the idea that there must be some supernatural creature, somewhere to explain the Whys' and Wherefores' of the Natural World took hold and from that came God. Man created God so God could create Man. Personally I stopped believing 50 years ago, in the idea that there was a God in Heaven watching me and taking notes. As I said that is personal, I will not make light nor ridicule anyones beliefs. I know from experience that a great many take comfort in their religion and that of course is their right and I for one will defend it. Mayhaps the day will come though when Humanity doesn't have to rely on a God to define who they are. Camac. |
| Posted by: LibraryJim 21-Apr-2009, 08:58 PM |
| Yes. (Christian) |
| Posted by: englishmix 21-Apr-2009, 11:46 PM |
| When I behold a corpse, there is no clearer evidence that God exists and that it is not the concept of God which is problematic, but rather our existence here in this world has some serious problems. For the spirit or soul which animated the corpse came from some where and has now been separated. Yet the material body remains wasting away. To where did what animated and gave life to that corpse go, and from whence had it come? Why has not the body left too, or rather, why has not the soul remained? Where is the conservation of energy & matter? God has given life and God takes it away, and one day God will unite the two again on the Resurrection according to His promise. |
| Posted by: Camac 22-Apr-2009, 06:25 AM |
| englishmix; As life is a form of energy and under the Laws of Physics can neither created nor destroyed, when the body is no longer capable of sustaining that energy it returns to the Universe from whence it came. As to being reunited I don't know but I do suspect that the Universe has a use for it and it is more than likely recycled as something. Camac. |
| Posted by: lschillinger 22-Apr-2009, 07:17 AM |
| A God/Creator of some sort, in whatever form - Absolutely I believe. |
| Posted by: Antwn 22-Apr-2009, 01:30 PM |
| "When people are free to do as they please, they usually copy one another" - Eric Hoffer "Believe" seems to be the operative word here, whether that word is used or not. What is evident is that no one seems to know. Don't you find that interesting? Of all the questions we could and do ask ourselves - what is the nature of our existence - for example - is the one we know the least about, yet its the one many assure themselves and others that they're absolutely sure of, often from the flimsiest evidence and often no evidence at all, or its veracity is assumed from the continuity of tradition. Here's a question. Do you think its possible to know what God is? And even if you came up with an answer, how would it be possible to be verified? Who would do that? If you had some deep mystical experience to which "God" would be the best word you could think of to call it, how would you ever know if it was a, the, actual bonafide God? What guru, priest, roshi or other authority would be able to authenticate it for you, and why would you even need such authentication? Could it be possible that God is an unverifiable idea, only? All in all, belief doesn't cut it. Why? Simple, it doesn't answer the question. If the question is "what is the nature of our existence" and converstation diverts to various beliefs about God, then the question is still unanswered, because the question asks for knowledge. So much has been invested in our "beliefs". Why has so little been invested in our knowledge? If its possible to know at all.....and if we conclude its not, how do we know that? To what extent is that also a belief? Here's another question. Does it really matter? Apparantly we're not as interested in finding out as we are in being sure about our existing theories, prosthelytising them, debating them, making laws based on them and even murdering because of them, so the truth of the matter, if knowable, is not particularly important to anyone. Does that matter? Would it invalidate anyone's profound mystical or spiritual experience or intuition to say that it might be impossible to know whether it was "God" or not? If so, why call it God? The word "rose" is a symbol of an actual thing, not the thing itself. God is also a word. It has a meaning everyone defines but no one can verify, because they don't know anything about it. That's the truth. That's the elephant in the room no one talks about - except atheists, who are just as sure nothing exists, and don't know that either. Its interesting that a set of assumptions which have become the foundations of culture for millennia are not known at all, but merely assumed. What does that say about our intellectual honesty not to mention our ontological courage? Yet if such a thing is not knowable, and all we have is theory, upon what principles do we base our lives, our societies? This has been the big question from those with staunch beliefs and faith in their rectitude. Would it be possible to base a society on the highest attributes of human beings without having to justify their legitimacy by cockamamy cosmological theories? Are we wise enough yet to do that? Strong enough to admit we don't know what we're talking about? Do we care? That's the bigger question. After all we've invested in our ideas already, we probably won't unless we have to, or better information comes along. Will we have the courage to live outside this paradigm where ignorance is, if not bliss, then a comfortable dream to mask for our existential insecurity? |
| Posted by: MacDonnchaidh 22-Apr-2009, 07:34 PM | ||
If life was just a form of energy then "Dr. Frankenstein's Monster" wouldn't be in the 'Fiction Section' in the library. There's something more to 'life' than just energy. Otherwise some scientist would have been able to 'create' life by now. |
| Posted by: Lady-of-Avalon 22-Apr-2009, 07:51 PM | ||||
But MacDonnchaidh...scientists have created "life" not yet a human one though some try to pretend they did...but "life" was created using "cloning" and genetics cells to create another being. Just look at all the controversies surrounding the creation of Dolly the sheep...and the religious sect of Raëlians who their leaders have claim to have "created" the first human clone and believe that cloning is a step towards human immortality. This practice has been done for a while now. So I agree that "life" is a form of energy... our body itself is energy as we need it to go forward. LOA |
| Posted by: olorin 23-Apr-2009, 03:26 AM |
| I am Agnostic so I entered this thread with a great deal of skeptisism, fully expecting to see hypocritical neo-nazi christian mudslinging mumbo-jumbo bullshit flying all around this thread. I must say I was quite surprized to instead find some incredibly insightful and though provoking posts here. Kudo's to (most) of you for having an open mind to this discussion. And BTW, I couldn't help but smile at the line "God is a imaginary friend for grownups", classic. That reminds me of what my wife, (who is a strong minded christian) said to me one time, and as simple as it was, it made me think. She just looked at me one day in frustration when I laid one of my analytical points of view on her as always and said, "You know, even if there isn't a God, isn't it nice to at least have something to believe in?" As much as I hate to admit it, she is right. Be it false hope or not, it truly gives some people reason to live, and I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. What is so odd about that statement is that it goes against almost everything I say and believe anymore, it's a bit of a paradox. My two cents? Antwn's latest post. I don't think anyone could pose a better argument about our belief sytem. Very very well said sir. |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 23-Apr-2009, 08:41 AM | ||
Only if you think the human mind runs on logic and algorithms, or that objective consciousness is the majority of its contents. And if you do think that, you are deluding yourself about more things than the existence or nonexistence of a deity. |
| Posted by: englishmix 24-Apr-2009, 04:29 PM |
| Regarding Antwn's comment: "Here's a question. Do you think its possible to know what God is? And even if you came up with an answer, how would it be possible to be verified? Who would do that?" That is consistent with the Triune God of the Bible who has revealed that salvation only comes through faith (belief and confidence) in His Word. Oh, and He also claims to be the only One who can and will one day verify it. This is an interesting and I hope helpful discussion as Olorin noted - even should everyone disagree with me. I must say that I do side with Stoirmeil's comment: "Only if you think the human mind runs on logic and algorithms, or that objective consciousness is the majority of its contents. And if you do think that, you are deluding yourself about more things than the existence or nonexistence of a deity." Mostly, from my experience, my neighbors and I (somewhat unfortunately) operate more on instinct, emotion and irrationality (tending toward chaos and near insanity) than upon logic and reason. And even the best of logic and reason too often lead to absurd, humorous or even monstrous conclusions. If you don't "beleive" me, you just gotta visit my family, my workplace, my town and my government! And amen, dear friends, it is more than nice to have something to really beleive in; especially when your very soul affirms that it is a firm foundation. That would be my prayer for all of you. Best regards all, Englishmix |
| Posted by: Antwn 25-Apr-2009, 05:22 PM |
| The verification I had in mind was independent and corroborative, which is a separte thing altogether from faith based "verification" which provides no verification at all excpet the circular argument which says my holy book speaks the truth because it says it does. Of course people will believe what they want regardless of anything I say, and I don't want to get into a extended religious argument, since it will boil down to a matter of faith anyway, which is unarguable because logic has been abandonded as a context within which the argument can proceed at the outset, so I'll just say happy believing to you. I would like to provide an analogy however. Imagine a group of people sitting in a room and you ask them "are extraterrestrials real". Each will have an answer, some may say they were kidnapped by extraterrestrials and had experiments performed on them, others will not have any empirical data to relate but will simply offer an opinion, still others may have seen lights in the sky or a UFO pass by, or seen videos and some may be members of MUFON or some other organization and consider themselves quite expert on the subject and be able to provide research data, charts, interviews with ex-government officials implicating a coverup etc. After hearing all of this information, one might feel sympathetic towards one person's argument or another's, but one absolute certainty will remain - no one knows for sure and no one can provide independent corroboration of their beliefs, despite their sincerity or the compelling nature of their evidence. One's basically in a best guess position. Religious information is similar with regard to whether God exists - with particular regard to the nature, intentions, will and desire of such an intellegence - personal experience notwithstanding. There is also a distinction to be made between a person's experience and their interpretation of what that experience is - i.e. their attempt to contextualize it within what they know and understand about reality. The purity of a mystical experience by prophets, meditators, channelers or one's self doesn't correlate necessarily to the purity of its interpretation. My 2 cents. |
| Posted by: IrishBeachLassie 25-Apr-2009, 09:11 PM |
| YES, most definitely, I believe in God, the Holy Trinity, whatever name you want to give, I do believe! |
| Posted by: wildBonnie 06-Feb-2011, 03:18 AM | ||
I'm intrigued by this... you believe there is an all-powerful creator who made the world... and then abandoned it? I'd love to hear more of your beliefs. Personally I have no faith although I used to be a catholic and entered the convent. Now however I believe in myself alone and I find it liberating. |
| Posted by: TetonAndDistrictPerformingArts 03-Oct-2015, 10:55 PM |
| I believe! "GOD Armeth the Patriot" |
| Posted by: Shadows 04-Oct-2015, 08:07 AM |
| To quote Einstein " If god did not create us then we would have created god" Think on that. I am an agnostic pagan so I have many gods. |
| Posted by: Skinner 05-Oct-2015, 11:55 AM |
| Shadows, good quote. I have another by Einstein. "The deeper one penetrates into natures' secrets, the greater becomes ones' respect for God" Albert Einstein |