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Celtic Radio Community > General Discussion > Scottish Diaspora


Posted by: Camac 16-Aug-2008, 04:27 PM
My friend LOA sent me an article from Electric Scotland News Letter by Allister MacIntyre. In it he discusses the difference between Scotlands people and those Scots or their desendants throughout the world, concentrated mostly on those of us in North America and Australia. In my search for my lost family in Scotland I came across a Web site about we Scots and much to my amazment found out that in the three previously mentioned countries there are 25 MILLION of us. They are broken down thustly : US 12 MILLION, CAN.: 6 MILLION, AUS.: 5 MILLION

To put it midly "Thats a Hell of alot of Scots " This article goes on to discuss the facts (as he sees them) that we Scots of the Diaspora do more to keep our language (Gaelic), Culture, and Heritage alive and flourishing than do our Cousins in the Homeland. He also went on to say that in his many years of travel and research into the Scots that Canada is the NEW SCOTLAND. If this is the case first let me say as a Scots-Canadian I am happy but I am also shocked and saddened that it might be the truth. If it is, then "WOE UNTO ALBA".


Camac.

Posted by: glaswegian 19-Aug-2008, 06:53 PM
I have read this and I I would like to give an authentic view in how the scots feel as there are some inaccuracies in the post. I would like to say that I am very open to debate and I look forward to conversing with anyone about my statment.

1. There are not 25 million scots around the world. There are 5 and half million scots in scotland and about 2million that have migrated. That makes about 7 million scots around that world.

I think you were refering to descendants of scots in your post, those of whom are not scottish they are descended from the scots.

2. I have to clarify that the scots are not a race of people, the scots are racially white european, and they are seperated from the rest of the world through culture not blood.

having scottish parents or being born in scotland does not make you scottish. To be scottish you must have been raised in scotland at an age early enough to be assimilated, and have your character and personality changed and moulded by scotland. This includes being raised in - scottish culture, people, language, dialect, philosophy, attitudes, beliefs, sense of inward and outward perceptions, worldview, humour, kinship, politics, etc. etc.

I being born and raised in scotland, know the sample view of every scot I have grown up with and met throught my life. I knwo for a fact that alsmot everyone (if not everyone) I have met insists and agres that these values are what makes someone scottish. The fact is that a scot will only consider you a fellow scot if you were raised inscotland and have become a scot through real experience. This is regardless of race.

I have non white friends who regard themselves as scottish through and through, first and foremost. And they are scottish, as scottish as myself. I know that a lot of scots descendants have a hard time accepting this, but this is how the vast majority of scots feel. And unless you have lived in scotland for an extended period of time, you cannot know what it truely means to being scottish.

3. Culture is something that has constantly evolved in scotland, the culture that many non scots hold dear, in regard to scotland, is not an accurate perception of authentic culture in scotland. Culture cannot be read in a book. And culture that is supposedly handed down into a genearation living in another country will always be warped by that countries indigenous culture. I have travelled the world and I know from personal experiance that culture can only be lived and breathed where it is felt and lived in everyday.

I consider americans of scottish descent as my cousins, but I do not consider them scottish. I dont say that as being elitist or mean, it is a simple fact.

Posted by: Camac 19-Aug-2008, 07:36 PM
glaswegian;

As to the 25 million Scots you will note in the original post that referred to Scots and their descendants. AS to culture well up till the 60s' there was more Gaelic spoken in Cape Breton than in Scotland. It dropped for awhile but is on the rise again thanks to the only Gaelic speaking University in the World. Prince Edward Island has the largest Piping school in North America and the University of Guelph offers a Masters in Scottish Studies. I was born in Scotland and am of the Campbells and the oldest male of my branch carrying the name. I was adopted by a Mac Arthur when my Father died and my Mom remarried. I was rasied in a Scottish household, I ate , slept and drank Scottish culture . I young man am a Scot. Maybe just maybe when you get to my age you will realize what a Scot is . Its in the Blood and in the Soul. Its is returning to Scotland after 61 years and knowing you are Home.


Camac.

Posted by: Lady of Avalon 19-Aug-2008, 08:08 PM
QUOTE (glaswegian @ 19-Aug-2008, 08:53 PM)
I have read this and I I would like to give an authentic view in how the scots feel as there are some inaccuracies in the post. I would like to say that I am very open to debate and I look forward to conversing with anyone about my statment.

1. There are not 25 million scots around the world. There are 5 and half million scots in scotland and about 2million that have migrated. That makes about 7 million scots around that world.

I think you were refering to descendants of scots in your post, those of whom are not scottish they are descended from the scots.

2. I have to clarify that the scots are not a race of people, the scots are racially white european, and they are seperated from the rest of the world through culture not blood.

having scottish parents or being born in scotland does not make you scottish. To be scottish you must have been raised in scotland at an age early enough to be assimilated, and have your character and personality changed and moulded by scotland. This includes being raised in - scottish culture, people, language, dialect, philosophy, attitudes, beliefs, sense of inward and outward perceptions, worldview, humour, kinship, politics, etc. etc.

I being born and raised in scotland, know the sample view of every scot I have grown up with and met throught my life. I knwo for a fact that alsmot everyone (if not everyone) I have met insists and agres that these values are what makes someone scottish. The fact is that a scot will only consider you a fellow scot if you were raised inscotland and have become a scot through real experience. This is regardless of race.

I have non white friends who regard themselves as scottish through and through, first and foremost. And they are scottish, as scottish as myself. I know that a lot of scots descendants have a hard time accepting this, but this is how the vast majority of scots feel. And unless you have lived in scotland for an extended period of time, you cannot know what it truely means to being scottish.

3. Culture is something that has constantly evolved in scotland, the culture that many non scots hold dear, in regard to scotland, is not an accurate perception of authentic culture in scotland. Culture cannot be read in a book.  And culture that is supposedly handed down into a genearation living in another country will always be warped by that countries indigenous culture. I have travelled the world and I know from personal experiance that culture can only be lived and breathed where it is felt and lived in everyday.

I consider americans of scottish descent as my cousins, but I do not consider them scottish. I dont say that as being elitist or mean, it is a simple fact.

Hi glaswegian,

First and foremost let me welcome you to our community here at CR where I think one will find that it's the greatest place to be with a great diversity of people and of course of opinions.
Now this said, I would like also say that I respect your opinions but let me just point here that the editor of this article is a Scot through and through he was born in Scotland and has been in the States for a while and now in Canada for I think 2 years now.
So again this said, I think that if this editor spoke of his fellow scottishmen in regards of their culture and language;well I think it is because he knows for a fact that the culture of your beautiful country is diseapearring a little especially in the south,and by your name, I think that is where you are from. All who knows their history well knows that Glasgow and all the cities in the south have lost most of their culture from way back. It was debated in medieval times.It was said that the scots from the south weren't real scots because they assimilated the english ways very fast.No insult intended.
At 25 and you have travelled the world,well I congratulate you sincerely because for such a young age it is a unique experience,but even so, travelling doesn't mean that one knows all about what's going on in a foreign country either.
Have you ever been here in our beautiful country or in the states for that matter and met people originated from Scotland? If so, well then you would not say that you see the canadians or americans of scottish descent as cousins because they probably have more scottish roots then you can ever imagine.
I have been in Scotland myself and I must say that I do agree with the article and even the Scots themselves while travelling would say to us that it was a pity that a lot of young folks were simply not interested in learning of the "auld ways" and it's the same everywhere.But then all of a sudden someone wakes up and they see the importance of not loosing this rich culture and especially the language of Gaelic.

Thank you and again welcome to our great community and look forward to your future posts.

LOA smile.gif

Posted by: MacFive 19-Aug-2008, 09:12 PM
The Scots & Irish and the descendents of Scots & Irish have had a tremendeous impact on the world as we know it. Come here to America and Canada and attend a Highland Game and you will see hundreds if not thousands of people that enjoy the culture of Scotland and associate with Scotland's past. Take a look at an Irish Music Festival too and you will see it runs deep.

Dear Friend, be proud of your heritage and the fact that your country has had such a world wide impact. There is no need to make differences in the fact that you are not a true scot if you did not grow up and where raised in your beloved country.

Am I any less Scot because my ancestor was thrown out of the country because they wanted to make room for sheep; then be lied to and told he was going to North Carolina - then lose all of his worldly possession and become shipwrecked on Prince Edward Island in the year 1770. When I look at my ancestors and see MacDougals, MacGregors, Thayers and MacDonalds all inter-marrying with my surname of MacArthur. My Son James MacArthur is 14 years old and 5 foot 11 and looks like he just stepped off the boat from Scotland. His great grandfather was a Scotmans who immigrated in the early 20th century (on his mother's side). It runs deep in his blood and his parents.

As was echoed in this post, at some point those on Cape Breton had to re-teach the Scots their own culture because it had become forgotten.

So why do we carry on like this, why do we hold on to this image, this aberration of a land removed by time and the leagues of the sea? I'd have to put forward the reason is because our ancestors valued their culture so much as to pass it on through generation after generation. We are honoring those that have gone and in a mark of humanity, defining ourselves and that of our families.

What a wonderful thing to be able to claim a relationship with your country. I'd certainly welcome that and embrace those that feel a sense of kinship of the old ways with our common ancestors.

Posted by: Camac 20-Aug-2008, 07:21 AM
Macfive;

From another MacArthur "Good for you Lad ,Good for You.



Camac.

Posted by: Lady of Avalon 20-Aug-2008, 10:52 AM
Macfive,

It is so true what you write about on the pride of one's heritage.
Being proud of it is a personal wealth in itself and heritage is what is being passed on from generation to generation.
No matter where one is born the roots are from somewhere to begin with and like I said in a previous posts, how wonderful it is for one to know where he or she is really from.

LOA smile.gif

Posted by: glaswegian 21-Aug-2008, 10:58 AM
"So again this said, I think that if this editor spoke of his fellow scottishmen in regards of their culture and language;well I think it is because he knows for a fact that the culture of your beautiful country is diseapearring a little especially in the south,and by your name, I think that is where you are from. All who knows their history well knows that Glasgow and all the cities in the south have lost most of their culture from way back"
Can I ask how you came up with this preposterous statement, scottish culture hasnt been disappearing.. scottish culture evolves and changes. If you are talking about bagpipes and rabbie burns maybe your right.

"It was debated in medieval times.It was said that the scots from the south weren't real scots because they assimilated the english ways very fast.No insult intended."

The highlanders in medievil times considered lowland scots sassenachs, the demographics of scotland is unrecognisable from medievil times, the industrial revolution shook up scotland, the vast majority of scots living in the lowlands have highland names because hundreds of thousands of highlanders moved to glasgow,

I dont know why you brought this up has it has no relevance to my previous postpost

"Have you ever been here in our beautiful country or in the states for that matter and met people originated from Scotland? If so, well then you would not say that you see the canadians or americans of scottish descent as cousins because they probably have more scottish roots then you can ever imagine."

No but I most of my friends and family have.my friends loved canada and america they were however pissed of at all the plastic scots. americans and canadians calling themselves scottish are actually the butt of jokes in scotland. Thye have even been taken the piss out off in scottish comedy sketch shows.


"Am I any less Scot because my ancestor was thrown out of the country because they wanted to make room for sheep; then be lied to and told he was going to North Carolina - then lose all of his worldly possession and become shipwrecked on Prince Edward Island in the year 1770"

You are not scottish, My fellow scots would not consider you scottish I know this for a fact.


I apolgise if I sound abrasive its not my intention at all. I along witht he vast majority of scots get pissed at people calling themslves scots when they are not. I am not attacking anyone interestd/proud of their heritage.


Posted by: Lady of Avalon 21-Aug-2008, 11:18 AM
QUOTE (glaswegian @ 21-Aug-2008, 12:58 PM)


"Have you ever been here in our beautiful country or in the states for that matter and met people originated from Scotland? If so, well then you would not say that you see the canadians or americans of scottish descent as cousins because they probably have more scottish roots then you can ever imagine."



No but I most of my friends and family have.my friends loved canada and america they were however pissed of at all the plastic scots. americans and canadians calling themselves scottish are actually the butt of jokes in scotland. Thye have even been taken the piss out off in scottish comedy sketch shows.


"Am I any less Scot because my ancestor was thrown out of the country because they wanted to make room for sheep; then be lied to and told he was going to North Carolina - then lose all of his worldly possession and become shipwrecked on Prince Edward Island in the year 1770"

You are not scottish, My fellow scots would not consider you scottish I know this for a fact.


I apolgise if I sound abrasive its not my intention at all. I along witht he vast majority of scots get pissed at people calling themslves scots when they are not. I am not attacking anyone interestd/proud of their heritage.

Sorry if I offended or "pissed" you as you mention in your post.
As for sounding abbrasive and attacking goes,again I'm sorry but you have alot to learn in regards of addressing others.

And again sorry that your friends and family that came in our country are pissed at us "plastics scots". How so then that like I said that the editor of the article in regards of you "genuine" scots and your culture are described like this from a "genuine" scots, born and raise there???

Maybe you could write to him and have him explain his article to you more clearly?

Your friend from Canada, LOA

Posted by: Camac 21-Aug-2008, 11:30 AM
glaswegian;

First off I will assume that your choice of names for the forum reflects where you are from and that by itself tell me alot. To say that a person like me is not a Scot is an insult not only to me but all those like me. I have 1800 years of Scottish blood flowing in my viens that same blood, the blood of my Father stains the soil of Italy and his body lies beneath the sands of North Africa and you dare to say that myself and the thousands like me are not Scots. My forefathers fought along side Wallace at Stirling and Falkirk, the stood with Bruce at Bannockburn and fought at Culloden so excuse me if I'm a little "PISSED OFF" with your attitude.


Camac.

Posted by: Lady of Avalon 21-Aug-2008, 11:42 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 21-Aug-2008, 01:30 PM)
glaswegian;

First off I will assume that your choice of names for the forum reflects where you are from and that by itself tell me alot. To say that a person like me is not a Scot is an insult not only to me but all those like me. I have 1800 years of Scottish blood flowing in my viens that same blood, the blood of my Father stains the soil of Italy and his body lies beneath the sands of North Africa and you dare to say that myself and the thousands like me are not Scots. My forefathers fought along side Wallace at Stirling and Falkirk, the stood with Bruce at Bannockburn and fought at Culloden so excuse me if I'm a little "PISSED OFF" with your attitude.


Camac.

cheers.gif

I'm curious about what the editor of the article in question would have to say about all these posts.... wink.gif

LOA

Posted by: glaswegian 21-Aug-2008, 12:05 PM
My forefathers fought along side Wallace at Stirling and Falkirk, the stood with Bruce at Bannockburn and fought at Culloden

...... what does that have to do with anything ?

To say that a person like me is not a Scot is an insult not only to me but all those like me. I have 1800 years of Scottish blood flowing in my viens that same blood,

Your gushing over sentementality makes me cringe. Is scottish blood tartan coloured ?

How so then that like I said that the editor of the article in regards of you "genuine" scots and your culture are described like this from a "genuine" scots, born and raise there???

I am not really concerned about a single article or what the writer says. I know how the vast majority of scots of scots really feel. I have had this discussion in pubs plenty of times.

Posted by: Camac 21-Aug-2008, 12:15 PM
QUOTE (glaswegian @ 21-Aug-2008, 01:05 PM)
[i]My. I have had this discussion in pubs plenty of times.

That says it all.

Posted by: glaswegian 21-Aug-2008, 04:22 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 21-Aug-2008, 01:15 PM)
That says it all.

what do you mean ?

Posted by: Lady of Avalon 21-Aug-2008, 04:47 PM
QUOTE
glaswegian Posted on 21-Aug-2008, 06:22 PM
  QUOTE (Camac @ 21-Aug-2008, 01:15 PM)
That says it all. 


what do you mean ? 


Gentlemen if I may,

First this is a thread where members exchange and discuss on a subject, this is not for nitpicking. Exchanging ideas and opinions is supposed to be done with respect.
I am not acting as a moderator or anything like that because I'm not, it's just a friendly suggestion so that we do not derive from the subject at hand.

glaswegian if I may make a suggestion to you, I welcomed you in our community as a friend and the suggestion here is propose to you as one as well.
Here at CR we have a topic that's call "Introduction" why don't you introduce yourself so that other members will get to know you and welcome you properly.
Also, in the "Introduction" forum there is a pinned topic that the founder of this site propose to all new members to read and I suggest that you do so and it is the thread " The members guidelines" for there are certain rules to respect in regard of addressing others on the site.

Thank you kindly, LOA smile.gif

Posted by: JACOBITE 22-Aug-2008, 01:24 AM
I think a lot of this is a matter of opinion.I have travelled in the USA and Canada and yes sometimes there is a misty eyed view of Scotland but whats wrong with that.
Many people in Scotland think the USA has a huge hot beach and theme park in Florida and maybe some shops in NY.Thats no more the real USA than Glencoe is the real Scotland.
Scotland is moving on but so are other countries.However I believe our culture remains strong whether through our music or the way that many of us view ourselves as a country now and our place in the world.
A friend of mine explains it best when he told me "The USA is my country of birth and I love it dearly but Scotland is where my blood comes from"
I can understand that.Scotland now has many new Scots living here and while they are Scots they also remember the traditions of the countries where their parents or grandparents came from.
And I would hope that any visitor coming to Scotland to seek out their roots and see where their family came from would be treated with the same respect I have always been treated with while attending games and visiting in the USA or Canada and if they are not then we in Scotland have a lesson to learn from our cousins.


Posted by: Teriodin 22-Aug-2008, 02:08 AM
I think retaining your culture and heritage once you leave your country of origin is natural and laudable.

Scotland has seen an influx of Asians over the last 30 years and a good curry is becoming part of our national diet, but the asians retain their own culture, language and mode of dress.

Why should Scots and their descendents abroad not do likewise?

I have heard the 'plastic scots' debate before in pubs and at family gatherings, yet every one of them admitted that they would not stop being Scottish if they moved abroad and that they'd tell their children they were Scots too.

I think some of it may be that our trans-atlantic cousins make more of an effort to keep Alba's heritage alive than her current residents and this perhaps makes some of the locals feel bad.

Mocking something is always good for assuaging your guilt, eh? angel_not.gif

Posted by: Camac 22-Aug-2008, 06:26 AM
Jacobite & Teriodin;

I read both your post and I see that there are people who understand what it means to those of us who are part of the Diaspora. I wrote a poem in Celtic Hearts called "Twixt Two" maybe that will explain how I and alot of others feel.


Camac.

Posted by: Lady of Avalon 22-Aug-2008, 07:42 AM
QUOTE
JACOBITE Posted on 22-Aug-2008, 03:24 AM
Scotland now has many new Scots living here and while they are Scots they also remember the traditions of the countries where their parents or grandparents came from.
And I would hope that any visitor coming to Scotland to seek out their roots and see where their family came from would be treated with the same respect I have always been treated with while attending games and visiting in the USA or Canada and if they are not then we in Scotland have a lesson to learn from our cousins.


QUOTE
Teriodin Posted on 22-Aug-2008, 04:08 AM
  I think retaining your culture and heritage once you leave your country of origin is natural and laudable.

Scotland has seen an influx of Asians over the last 30 years and a good curry is becoming part of our national diet, but the asians retain their own culture, language and mode of dress.

Why should Scots and their descendents abroad not do likewise?

I have heard the 'plastic scots' debate before in pubs and at family gatherings, yet every one of them admitted that they would not stop being Scottish if they moved abroad and that they'd tell their children they were Scots too.

I think some of it may be that our trans-atlantic cousins make more of an effort to keep Alba's heritage alive than her current residents and this perhaps makes some of the locals feel bad.


Jacobite & Teriodin,

I really appreciate your point of view about the beautiful culture of the Scots and one can read you open mind on how the Canadians and Americans of Scottish descents feel in their bones. Roots is the key word here.

Thank you, LOA smile.gif


Posted by: glaswegian 22-Aug-2008, 12:52 PM
QUOTE (Teriodin @ 22-Aug-2008, 03:08 AM)


I think some of it may be that our trans-atlantic cousins make more of an effort to keep Alba's heritage alive than her current residents and this perhaps makes some of the locals feel bad.


Do you mean highland games, bagpipes and kilts.

I would hardly call that scottish culture.

Posted by: John Clements 22-Aug-2008, 02:44 PM
QUOTE (JACOBITE @ 22-Aug-2008, 02:24 AM)
I think a lot of this is a matter of opinion.I have travelled in the USA and Canada and yes sometimes there is a misty eyed view of Scotland but whats wrong with that.
Many people in Scotland think the USA has a huge hot beach and theme park in Florida and maybe some shops in NY.Thats no more the real USA than Glencoe is the real Scotland.
Scotland is moving on but so are other countries.However I believe our culture remains strong whether through our music or the way that many of us view ourselves as a country now and our place in the world.
A friend of mine explains it best when he told me "The USA is my country of birth and I love it dearly but Scotland is where my blood comes from"
I can understand that.Scotland now has many new Scots living here and while they are Scots they also remember the traditions of the countries where their parents or grandparents came from.
And I would hope that any visitor coming to Scotland to seek out their roots and see where their family came from would be treated with the same respect I have always been treated with while attending games and visiting in the USA or Canada and if they are not then we in Scotland have a lesson to learn from our cousins.

Well said!
JC

Posted by: glaswegian 22-Aug-2008, 05:24 PM
Coming from the westcoast of scotland, we have hundreds of thousands of scots whos' ancestors were irish. While a lot of them are proud of this fact, I have never met a scotsman who described himself as irish. to call oneselve irish because they had irish ancestors 2 -3 generations ago would be even more ridculous.

being proud of your scots heritage is one thing, calling yourself a scot is another thing all together.

Anyway I dont want to sound like a broken record, so I will have to agree to disagree. I would advise actually listening to how the scots feel. The scots are not over sentimental like the americans and canadians seem to be about scotland, i.e crying when listining to bagpipes or writing poems. I am not having a dig. But it is very obvious that the perceptions of scotland are completely differant between scots and non scots.


Posted by: Lady of Avalon 22-Aug-2008, 05:57 PM
QUOTE (glaswegian @ 22-Aug-2008, 07:24 PM)
Coming from the westcoast of scotland, we have hundreds of thousands of scots whos' ancestors were irish. While a lot of them are proud of this fact, I have never met a scotsman who described himself as irish. to call oneselve irish because they had irish ancestors 2 -3 generations ago would be even more ridculous.

being proud of your scots heritage is one thing, calling yourself a scot is another thing all together.

Anyway I dont want to sound like a broken record, so I will have to agree to disagree. I would advise actually listening to how the scots feel. The scots are not over sentimental like the americans and canadians seem to be about scotland, i.e crying when listining to bagpipes or writing poems. I am not having a dig. But it is very obvious that the perceptions of scotland are completely differant between scots and non scots.

My dear friend for one proud scot that you pretend to be why then are you arboring the British flag on your profile.... and not the Scottish one?

LOA

Posted by: Camac 22-Aug-2008, 06:10 PM
LOA;

My Lady, let off the glaswegian I opened that topic to get some fruitful discussion not for some selfcentred cocky know it all 25 year old to insult people. Let the Topic die.



Camac.

Posted by: glaswegian 22-Aug-2008, 06:16 PM
QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 22-Aug-2008, 06:57 PM)
QUOTE (glaswegian @ 22-Aug-2008, 07:24 PM)
Coming from the westcoast of scotland, we have hundreds of thousands of scots whos' ancestors were irish. While a lot of them are proud of this fact, I have never met a scotsman who described himself as irish. to call oneselve irish because they had irish ancestors 2 -3 generations ago would be even more ridculous.

being proud of your scots heritage is one thing, calling yourself a scot is another thing all together.

Anyway I dont want to sound like a broken record, so I will have to agree to disagree. I would advise actually listening to how the scots feel. The scots are not over sentimental like the americans and canadians seem to be about scotland, i.e crying when listining to bagpipes or writing poems. I am not having a dig. But it is very obvious that the perceptions of scotland are completely differant between scots and non scots.

My dear friend for one proud scot that you pretend to be why then are you arboring the British flag on your profile.... and not the Scottish one?

LOA

I'm a scots nationalist, I didnt actually notice the union jack.

Posted by: glaswegian 22-Aug-2008, 06:19 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 22-Aug-2008, 07:10 PM)
LOA;

My Lady, let off the glaswegian I opened that topic to get some fruitful discussion not for some selfcentred cocky 25 year to insult people. Let the Topic die.



Camac.

why dont you write a soppy poem about it. I am starting to think that when you moved to canada the authorities maybe castrated you.

Posted by: stoirmeil 22-Aug-2008, 06:42 PM
QUOTE (glaswegian @ 22-Aug-2008, 06:24 PM)
Anyway I dont want to sound like a broken record, so I will have to agree to disagree. I would advise actually listening to how the scots feel. The scots are not over sentimental like the americans and canadians seem to be about scotland, i.e crying when listining to bagpipes or writing poems. I am not having a dig. But it is very obvious that the perceptions of scotland are completely differant between scots and non scots.

Ahem . . .

I wonder if we could really listen to what this man is saying, without reacting to the idea that he is trying to take something precious away from us? A culture in a diaspora is a diaspora culture. It's selective and hybridized; it may have strong associations and attachment to features of the home culture over many years, but it is a new entity growing and changing its own way. In his own considered understanding, and having grown up on the turf, our glaswegian friend is completely correct in making the distinction. I wonder if some are taking the thought of being a "diaspora descendant" as being regarded by the homeland in some way inferior, or watered down, or somehow not authentic. It isn't -- it's a proud new thing in itself.

The man has said he agrees to disagree, and there's no better than that for laying it down. It would only smooth the discussion to lose the digs at either manhood or poetry, but that's for you men to take on -- I only suggest.

Posted by: CelticRadio 22-Aug-2008, 07:22 PM
QUOTE (glaswegian @ 22-Aug-2008, 08:19 PM)
QUOTE

why dont you write a soppy poem about it. I am starting to think that when you moved to canada the authorities maybe castrated you.

glaswegian,

This is a clear violation of the terms of service. Not only that, it is a very rude comment to make when people are in a discussion.

If that is all you can muster up, then perhaps this forum is not for you.

Posted by: JACOBITE 22-Aug-2008, 11:49 PM
QUOTE (glaswegian @ 22-Aug-2008, 11:24 PM)
Coming from the westcoast of scotland, we have hundreds of thousands of scots whos' ancestors were irish. While a lot of them are proud of this fact, I have never met a scotsman who described himself as irish. to call oneselve irish because they had irish ancestors 2 -3 generations ago would be even more ridculous.


Are you being serious with that statement ????? I to come from Glasgow and there are plenty of Scots born and bred who would look to Ireland as their country.You only have to look at a Celtic match to see that.Where a proportion of their fans would choose Ireland over Scotland.

And before anyone jumps in the other side can be even worse looking to England over Scotland.

And its no problem to get rid of the butchers apron as your flag and get our own flag on there.

Posted by: Camac 23-Aug-2008, 07:35 AM
Jacobite;

First I wish to apologize to all that I let my emotions get carried away I have no idea what came over me. If I in any way insulted anyone including glaswegian I ask forgiveness. As to your reference to the "butchers apron" I have never heard the Jack called that before but perhaps it is to harsh a term. The Saltire is Scotlands flag but please remember those men and women who perished in two world wars did so under the Jack and but not for those sacrifices the world would be a far darker place. Again my apologies to all.


Camac.

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