 Uncomfortable? Get it out in the open!, Formerly Death v1 |
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RavenWing  |
Posted: 24-Sep-2003, 03:25 PM
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Dorkus Trollus Maximus
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 1,609
Joined: 07-Feb-2003
Zodiac: Hazel
Realm: Indiana, USA
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| QUOTE (Elspeth @ Sep 24 2003, 04:30 PM) | I cannot promise to respect all of your beliefs, just as you may not respect all of mine. BUT, I do promise to respect you as a person and your right to embrace, without attack, the beliefs of your choice, be they ones I agree with or not.
Of course, I do love to debate.  |
Everyone is allowed to have their own belief system. What I have a problem with is proselytizing.
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May all your up's and down's be under the sheets!
Religion is for those who are afraid of going to Hell. Spirituality is for those who have already been there.
- Anonymous
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| maryellen |
Posted: 28-Sep-2003, 06:27 PM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: England
Posts: 344
Joined: 20-Sep-2003
Zodiac: Hazel
Realm: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
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I would have to agree with Elspeth. I believe Jesus came here to give his life and die for our sins. I think we each have our version of heaven/paradise that we go to when we die. The United States was founded on the New and Old Testament- unlike any other country in the world, and we are the most prosperous. Not always right, but bountiful.
I know many others have different beliefs- my friends are Indian, Jewish and Chinese. I respect them and pray for them.
I'm just curious- what is the problem with proselytizing? If you do not spread your religion it will die out. I'm not sure where the hinderence lies.
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Seize the time,. . .live now, make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again- Star Trek TNG
"The report of my death was an exaggeration."
-Mark Twain, After reading his own obituary, June 2, 1897
If you ever have a world, plan ahead, don't eat it! - Star Trek TNG
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| Shadows |
Posted: 29-Sep-2003, 08:13 AM
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Reader of souls, vision seeker, TROLL
Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 4,792
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Zodiac: Holly
Realm: The frontier of Penn's Woods
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| QUOTE (maryellen @ Sep 28 2003, 08:27 PM) |
I'm just curious- what is the problem with proselytizing? If you do not spread your religion it will die out. I'm not sure where the hinderence lies. |
Introducing one's religion to others is not a problem, but the constant hounding or force feeding is! I was born right the first time!
As adults we all have a free will and the right to choose what we believe, I am as firm in my faith as anyone and no level of propoganda, or evangelizing will change what I believe. I was raised catholic, I studied many religions since then and have reached a comfort level with my god(s) that the validity of does not need questioning by those who think that their way is the only way. The teachings of Jesus were not new to the world only to the part of the world he inhabitied, yes he was a great teacher and philosopher. I shudder to think of all the autrosities performed under the guise of chritianity, the Inqusition, the slaughter of Native Americans that refused to convert, etc.
Live and let live, god is a personal thing, not something that any one group controls.
Einstien once said "...if god had not created man, then man would have created god..."
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I support the separation of church and hate!
IMAGINATION - the freest and largest nation in the world!
One can not profess to be of "GOD" and show intolerence and prejudice towards the beliefs of others.
Am fear nach gleidh na h–airm san t–sith, cha bhi iad aige ’n am a’ chogaidh.
He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.
"We're all in this together , in the parking lot between faith and fear" ... O.C.M.S.
“Beasts feed; man eats; only the man of intellect knows how to eat well.”
"Without food we are nothing, without history we are lost." - SHADOWS
Is iomadh duine laghach a mhill an Creideamh.
Religion has spoiled many a good man.
The clan MacEwen
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| Elspeth |
Posted: 29-Sep-2003, 10:38 AM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: Wales
Posts: 2,216
Joined: 24-Jun-2003
Zodiac: Reed
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| QUOTE (Elspeth) | | Why is it when a Christian shares their beliefs on a topic they are percieved as proselytizing or force feeding? |
Unfortunately, it happens more often than you might realize.
I am sorry for that. But don't confuse the religious with the religion. People are wacko by nature, that is why we all search for something that brings meaing to it all. And unfortunately, how we all hurt each other in the process.
My religion is about Love, not condmenation.
Show me where you have been made to feel unwelcome.
Let's just say there were several things that lead me to that conclusion. I'd rather not enumerate them for I want this all to die down, not become inflamed.
And I will also say the writen word, though a wonderful medium of expression, is extemely limited in conversation. So, I could have misunderstood the intent of others words.
I do not wish to cause any rift in your forum. Just be understood and excepted for my beliefs.
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| Shadows |
Posted: 29-Sep-2003, 11:17 AM
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Reader of souls, vision seeker, TROLL
Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 4,792
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Zodiac: Holly
Realm: The frontier of Penn's Woods
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| QUOTE (Elspeth @ Sep 29 2003, 11:27 AM) | Why is it when a Christian shares their beliefs on a topic they are percieved as proselytizing or force feeding? I posted my response to a question that was posed. That is all. The Welcome page to this site claims to be open to all beliefs. I don't feel mine are very welcome. If this is a forum for certian beliefs only, just say so. Just say Christians unwanted here. As I said before, it was not my intention to crash your forum. But it is either open or it is not.
I have not bashed your religion, but you have bashed mine. That does not feel very open to me. |
Where was your religion bashed?
People spoke their mind and beliefs, no one "bashed" your beliefs!
If it is to hot in the kitchen, then don't come in.
It is in the beliefs of the Pagan's ( Wica ) that what you give ( this includes words, actions, gifts, pain, pleasure, etc. ) is returned to you 3 fold!
We are very carefull to be pleasant, giving, and loving people due to this belief.
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| 3Ravens |
Posted: 29-Sep-2003, 11:37 AM
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Herbmistress of Erin
Group: Ireland
Posts: 1,084
Joined: 11-Aug-2003
Zodiac: Rowan
Realm: south coastal Virginia
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Whew!!!! Having been off line for several days courtesy of Miss Isabel, I just read this cold from start to finish. It just keeps getting hotter and hotter. Ravenwing, Shadows, et al; being an out in the open pagan in Pat Robertson country, I understand where you are coming from. However, I don't get the impression that Elspeth is like that, she's just firm in her own faith. One of the reasons I like this forum is because we don't get flamer wars, so lets not start now. Could we just agree to disagree, put away the soapboxes, and move on? Please? Thanks!
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If age is a learning experience, I should be a genius by now...
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| Shadows |
Posted: 29-Sep-2003, 11:52 AM
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Reader of souls, vision seeker, TROLL
Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 4,792
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Zodiac: Holly
Realm: The frontier of Penn's Woods
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| QUOTE (3Ravens @ Sep 29 2003, 01:37 PM) | | Whew!!!! Having been off line for several days courtesy of Miss Isabel, I just read this cold from start to finish. It just keeps getting hotter and hotter. Ravenwing, Shadows, et al; being an out in the open pagan in Pat Robertson country, I understand where you are coming from. However, I don't get the impression that Elspeth is like that, she's just firm in her own faith. One of the reasons I like this forum is because we don't get flamer wars, so lets not start now. Could we just agree to disagree, put away the soapboxes, and move on? Please? Thanks! |
Excuse me?!? Soapboxes? Flaming? Opinions are what this forum is about. Flaming? I have seen no flaming! I could have said : "...a certain maturity level is needed to discuss religious beliefs without conflict or inuendo..." But I did not! OH I guess I just did!  No one has assulted or even attempted to put down anyone's beliefs here that I can see. If you want debate then roll with the punches and don't be so soft skinned. We all believe in something, and even in the christian religions there is discontent and debate!
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| gaberlunzie |
Posted: 29-Sep-2003, 12:41 PM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 6,958
Joined: 31-Aug-2003
Zodiac: Vine
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I think if discussion is coming up one should discuss...I can understand that there were strong feelings on both sides. Elspeth who is very convinced and firm in her religion and on the other side I see that there is a reason to insist - Elspeth didn't give an evidence for being bashed.
I myself grew up with Christianity and got to know values which are still essential for my life. It's a religion of love - and tolerance.
I couldn't see where there has been no tolerance for Christianity but - and I'm sorry, Elspeth - nobody wants to read or hear a treatise on Christian religion which is near to proselytizing if it's not welcomed. Your belief itself has been accepted.
So calm down, to live and let live - tolerance is the magic word. There's not only black and white - there's also grey and many variations of it. Let's be open-minded!
Back to the topic: DEATH
Besides growing up with Christianity I have always been open for everything in this universe. I got to know ancient religions and "religions of Nature" (sorry, I don't know the English word for it!).
So I think as nature is a neverending circle life is similar. I do believe in life after death . Death is as natural as birth. And it's an end for those who are left behind and a beginning for the person who passed away. I made some expieriences with beloved persons who had died in the way that I think there has to be a possibility for contact from their "side" to ours. But that is what I believe - may sound silly or not, I don't worry.
So I'm not afraid of death, maybe how I will have to die but not to enter a new dimension afterwards.
I'm sure I will not be bashed  ! 
I do enjoy this site - it' more than interesting.
joy
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"Now here's my secret", said the fox, "it is very simple. It is only with ones heart that one can see clearly. What is essential is invisible to the eye."
("The Little Prince" by Antoine de Saint-Exupery)
"The soul would have no rainbow, if the eye had no tears."
(Native American Proverb)
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| Shadows |
Posted: 29-Sep-2003, 01:09 PM
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Reader of souls, vision seeker, TROLL
Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 4,792
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Zodiac: Holly
Realm: The frontier of Penn's Woods
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| QUOTE (tartangal @ Sep 29 2003, 02:26 PM) | Hesitant as I am to jump in here,  I have to agree that this thread seems to be heading toward a rather illhumoured conclusion.
I have been part of this forum for a number of months and what has drawn me back time and again is the warmth and acceptance among the gang here. As 3Ravens says, perhaps it is time to agree to disagree since it seems unlikely that either side is likely to alter the other's opinions or beliefs.
Jules(backing carefully out with white flag held high!  |
The perceived concept that anyone is trying to sway others to their beliefs is what got this in the direction it has taken! I for one do not give a rats ass what you believe as long as I am content in my beliefs that is all that matters! If you want to try to sway me in your direction, it won't happen; been there, hated it, don't want the tee-shirt.
This forum is here for discussion not conversion, let us keep it that way!
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| barddas |
Posted: 29-Sep-2003, 02:09 PM
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Offical sacrifice to the guitar gods-Play til you bleed
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 2,030
Joined: 06-Nov-2002
Zodiac: Willow
Realm: second star to the right, straight until morning
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I know I have not been in the midst of this little bit of confusion. But, if this happens again. Might I recommend that it be done via personal message. That way the topic is not confusing, or scary to someone new coming in. I know Shadows, and Ravenwing aren't intentionally try to make ANYONE feel uncomfortable, or unwelcome. That unfortunately happens in a written medium. That's why we have all of these lovely emoticoms that Paul set up....
And I do not believe that Elspeth or anyone else is trying to convert anyone. ( to either side) We all know that many paths BASICALLY go in a similar direction in theory. It is just a simple misunderstanding.
Thank you and sorry for that momentary bit of seriousness....
Thanks
NOw, I have to go back to work....sigh... I'm gonna be here late tonight... 
I need 
Now back to your reguarly scheduled discussion on death. Brought to you by the letter D and the new do it yourself doornail.... LOL!  
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BARDDAS BLOG/WEB SITECo Founder/Member of the KDCMusic is holy, art is sacred, and creativity is powerEveryday is EARTH DAY to a farmer "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." Oscar Wilde Some men are drawn to oceans, they cannot breathe unless the air is scented with a salty mist. Others are drawn to land that is flat, and the air is sullen and is leaden as August. My people were drawn to mountains- Earl Hamner Jr.
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